Unregistered Leaders

[BKS]

All leaders are supposed to be registered with the BSA. What if your unit has a leader who is YPT but NOT registered as a Scouter, and he’s going over advancement material with the scouts and teaching merit badges with the troop (not registered as MB counselor)?

 

[T2Eagle]

There is nothing inherently wrong or against the rules in what you're describing, i.e. an unregistered adult teaching skills to scouts.  For instance, about every other year our PLC invites one of our local police officers to come in as a guest speaker for our scouts.  They give a general talk, some about personal safety, some about careers in law enforcement, etc. They also teach how to do fingerprinting.  They cover about 90% of what is needed for Fingerprinting MB, and then we have one of our leaders who is also registered as a Fingerprinting MB counselor, complete the mb with any scout interested.  Similarly, on other occasions the PLC will invite various parents, parish members, etc. to give similar talks about their profession or hobbies, and these can also involve some skills training that may be relevant to advancement.

My point isn't that what you're describing is the same as this, just that there's clearly no rule against unregistered adults providing training and advancement help to scouts.  

As far as APPROVING advancement and merit badges there are some rules.  Signing off on rank advancement is the Scoutmaster's prerogative, they can do it themselves or delegate that authority for some or all of the various requirements.  In the best of troops the sign off is done by patrol leaders and other senior scouts, in many probably most troops there is some adult authorization needed.  Some troops are strict about exactly who can sign and under what circumstances; some will delegate it to any competent adult; many troops will prohibit parents, registered or not, from signing off on their own scout's work.  Merit badge approval involves clear rules, you have to be both registered as a scouter and registered as a counselor for each particular badge.

What I suspect you have and are concerned about is an unregistered adult, probably a parent, who is going beyond just incidental skills training and is acting more as a registered leader in the sheer volume of time spent working with the scouts.  Again there is no clear rule against this as long as all the other YPT rules are followed.  As long as there are sufficient registered leaders present when this person is present there is no restriction against him or her also being present and working with the scouts. 

Now, whether this is a good idea is a separate question.  This is something that you should discuss with your Committee Chair and possibly your Chartered Organization Rep.  They are responsible and accountable for the adults interacting with scouts.  Frankly, if you have an adult acting like a leader, the best practice would be for them to apply, have a background check, and be approved to BE a leader.  A friendly but frank discussion between the CC and the adult should cover whether there is a reason not to have this happen. 

[mrjohns2]

They aren’t a unit leader. Just a parent helping. 
 

What is your question?

[jcousino]

ypt for everyone involved in the unit other than a guest doing a group activity. This guest is assigned a unit leader to be their guide during the presentation or additional interaction time. I would encourage parents to take the YPT training to know what they should see from the unit leader and what is expected of them and others involved in scouting. Any overnight YPT is a must, and transporting youth within a scouting event is necessary. Just picking their child is nice but not required.

[mrjohns2]

2 hours ago, jcousino said:

Any overnight YPT is a must, and transporting youth within a scouting event is necessary.

Sept 1, they need to be registered as well if overnight. 

[MikeS72]

8 hours ago, BKS said:

All leaders are supposed to be registered with the BSA. What if your unit has a leader who is YPT but NOT registered as a Scouter, and he’s going over advancement material with the scouts and teaching merit badges with the troop (not registered as MB counselor)?

 

Is this someone who was just helping out one time, or are they always there and always interacting with the youth?

Is there a reason they are not registered?  Have they been approached about registering and declined to do so?

[fred8033]

16 hours ago, MikeS72 said:

Is there a reason they are not registered?  

This started years ago.   Our pack started registering fewer leaders because of cost.  It just got too expensive to use scout raised funds to register each and every adult that helped in any manor.  As such, we registered the direct contact leaders and the rest were often minimal. 

So, the original post ... "leader" ... what is meant by a leader?  An adult talking with the scouts is not automatically a leader.  Teaching MB content is not necessarily being a MBC (registered role).  If the person is signing off on merit badges, he must be registered.  

I'd ask ... Is this an on-going role?  is the adult building connections with the scouts?  If the adult is interacting with the scouts on an on-going basis, they must be registered.  It's not just about BSA requirements.  It's about protecting the scouts.  

[BKS]

The parent is working with scouts for rank advancements. When it comes to working on advancements, our leaders divide the scouts into their ranks. Each group has a leader working with the scouts on their requirements for whatever rank they are working on.. This parent is one of those individuals.

 

This parent is also not registered as a MB Counselor and is teaching merit badges to Scouts (as a group) in our troop. Just as any registered MB Counselor would. 
 

I believe you are allowed to have unregistered people help teach/assist MB topics as long as a registered MB counselor for that badge is present. But this isn’t the case. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by BKS

[KublaiKen]

No, you don't need an MBC present when skills are learned. The MBC only needs to be the one to sign off when the Scout has completed the requirements to the satisfaction of the MBC.

Edited March 30, 2023 by KublaiKen
Fixed a typo.

[KublaiKen]

By the way, you also don't need an adult present when Scout skills are learned for advancement. Get those adults out of those groups, registered or not, and let the Scouts teach the skills. Let the older Scouts sign the younger Scouts off on the requirements. Only then does an adult need to be involved.

[qwazse]

On 3/30/2023 at 1:48 PM, KublaiKen said:

By the way, you also don't need an adult present when Scout skills are learned for advancement. Get those adults out of those groups, …

This 🙄! @BKS, encourage your troop to change its teaching model. Identify those scouts who have mastered some scout skills. Make them instructors. Then adults may sit back, enjoy some coffee, and demonstrate making gourmet meals for their fellow adults.

[PatB34]

A measure of a great Scoutmaster is how long they can stand with their hands in their pocket as Scouts try to build a fire.

Whenever possible, have Scouts teach.  This isn't always practical, but is quite special when it works or fails. 

[fred8033]

On 3/29/2023 at 9:03 AM, BKS said:

... What if your unit has a leader who is YPT but NOT registered ...

I was thinking ... YPT, but NOT registered ... it's an oxymoron.  An automatic statement that the YPT points did not sink in.   There is no YPT meat without the person being registered.  It's like attending law school, but never passing the bar.  

[Eagle94-A1]

29 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

I was thinking ... YPT, but NOT registered ... it's an oxymoron.  An automatic statement that the YPT points did not sink in.   There is no YPT meat without the person being registered.  It's like attending law school, but never passing the bar.  

I know someone who submitted multiple applications over a 5 year period, but was never registered. Council lost every single one of the applications, including the 3 hand delivered ones. When I finally pushed the issue at council for the 6th submission, they were registered for less than 3 months.  Some SNAFU in IA 2.0 / SCOUTBOOK. caused every MBC to be unregistered in my council. They said the heck with Scouting after that.

So yes, I knew an unregistered leader with YPT.

[fred8033]

16 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I know someone who submitted multiple applications over a 5 year period, but was never registered. Council lost every single one of the applications, including the 3 hand delivered ones. When I finally pushed the issue at council for the 6th submission, they were registered for less than 3 months.  Some SNAFU in IA 2.0 / SCOUTBOOK. caused every MBC to be unregistered in my council. They said the heck with Scouting after that.

So yes, I knew an unregistered leader with YPT.

Registration quirks aside, my point is claiming someone is YPT trained but not registered is a contradiction.