Why have Scouts?

[vol_scouter]

Develops Character.

 

[Mrjeff]

Well, there have been a few replies that are closer to some of the outcome of Scouting.  Build character, good citizen, horrible paperwork are all great examples of the results of being in Scouts but I have never heard a kid use those to say why they want to be a Scout.  Wicked adventures, get outside, have a knife, build fires, camp out or go hiking are closer to the mark.  Those other things are interjected by adults to help form the positive results of being a Scout.  Sadly, its the result of well meaning adults that we been required to wash much of the fun out of Scouting.  For example, build a tower.  Ropes, logs, blisters, knots and lashings, sweat ond hard work and now we have a tower!  But don't climb on because a lashing may not hold and you may fall.  What great fun that could have been.  Or perhaps, let's cook potatoes in the fire by building a fire,  feeding the fire with the right kind of wood, throw the potatoes in the fire, wait a while and eat the potatoes, what a great meal that was!  But, let's not let the kids play with fire because they might get burned or we may scorch a spot on the ground, and heaven forbid that someone burnes their fingers on a hot potato because that could spell law suite for the adult overseeing  this dangerous event. Now even dodge ball is against the rules,, boy oh boy oh boy😞😞

[5thGenTexan]

I don't deny that Scouting should be fun, but when the entire emphasis is on fun above all else without goals of the Aims & Methods...  Leadership skils, character development, citizenship, etc.    Well, then all you have is an outdoor play group with uniforms.

 

You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometime you'll find
You get what you need

[Mrjeff]

I disagree and I don't believe that the emphasis should be on anything but fun.  Rather then make everything a lesson the adults need to focus on the fun and guide that in the direction that let's the other stuff happen.  And just exactly what's wrong with an outside play group with uniforms?

[Mrjeff]

9 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

BE PREPARED

I liked @mrjohns2"Good Citizen" response. As a parent, that's really my number one goal - to raise a decent person who provides a net benefit to society (as opposed to being a drag on others). Everything else is a stretch goal.

However, I think the Scout motto answers the OP's question pretty well. Scouting will eventually nudge my son out of his comfort zone when he's old enough to join Scouts BSA. Spending a weekend away from his parents and relying solely on supplies he and his troopmates packed will teach him independence and self-reliance. If he chooses to work on camp staff, he'll spend 6 weeks away from my wife and I every summer. Most successful adults have to occasionally operate outside of their comfort zones and Scouting provides a controlled environment for youth to be independent and make mistakes without serious repercussions.

I love that, too.  And I concur with everything you say!

[Eagle94-A1]

10 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

I don't deny that Scouting should be fun, but when the entire emphasis is on fun above all else without goals of the Aims & Methods...  Leadership skils, character development, citizenship, etc.    Well, then all you have is an outdoor play group with uniforms.

Troop I grew up in used the term "Stealth Advancement" basically having fun but learning at the same time. Best example was the ASM who let the Leadership Corps drive his boat  IF they spent the time with him learning how to drive his boat. We did, had a blast, and at the COH about 1-2 months after the boating weekend, we received Motorboating MB. Everything he taught us met the requirements, and then some.

[5thGenTexan]

55 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Troop I grew up in used the term "Stealth Advancement" basically having fun but learning at the same time. Best example was the ASM who let the Leadership Corps drive his boat  IF they spent the time with him learning how to drive his boat. We did, had a blast, and at the COH about 1-2 months after the boating weekend, we received Motorboating MB. Everything he taught us met the requirements, and then some.

In our Troop I can not for the life of me figure out how a Scout can complete the cooking First Class requirements for instance.  We have no patrol structure and there is no planning for meals.  Typically there is an adult that picks what they are going to eat and picks its up the day before they leave on a campout, but there is no shortage of "fun" once they arrive at camp.  By "fun", I mean absolutely no structure during the weekend and just running in the woods.  Same thing at meetings.  We have a playground near our meeting place and it serves as a "babysitter" DURING meetings sometimes because its "fun" for the boys.  Recently, I had an adult who is serving as ASM explain to me that the Scouts planning meetings in a PLC is not really fun and what they like to do, so they shouldnt really have to do that.

 

From my personal experience lately, I am about fed up with "fun".  Around here it means the adults are lazy and don't want to do their job.

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 minute ago, 5thGenTexan said:

In our Troop I can not for the life of me figure out how a Scout can complete the cooking First Class requirements for instance.  We have no patrol structure and there is no planning for meals.  Typically there is an adult that picks what they are going to eat and picks its up the day before they leave on a campout, but there is no shortage of "fun" once they arrive at camp.  By "fun", I mean absolutely no structure during the weekend and just running in the woods.  Same thing at meetings.  We have a playground near our meeting place and it serves as a "babysitter" DURING meetings sometimes because its "fun" for the boys.  Recently, I had an adult who is serving as ASM explain to me that the Scouts planning meetings in a PLC is not really fun and what they like to do, so they shouldnt really have to do that.

 

From my personal experience lately, I am about fed up with "fun".  Around here it means the adults are lazy and don't want to do their job.

Yes, sounds like you have a Cub Scout camping club, not Scouting.

Until the adults get on board, it's not gonna happen.

And, unfortunately, it takes an adult driving the train initially to get the youth to do Scouting.  Because, most kids are inherently lazy stemming from incompetence and fear of failure, they are unwilling to do the work.  So they need to be led or pushed at the start.

Adults also need to set expectations and task early on... 

"Want to go camping?  Well, you need to make a menu... anyone???  No??  OK, then we aren't going camping."

OR...  "Yes, you Jimmy?? OK, do you want to do it for rank advancement.  No??  OK, fine... let's go camping!!!"

OR...  "Yes, you Jimmy?? OK, do you want to do it for rank advancement??  Yes??  Great!  Let's look at the rank requirements and talk about what you need to do to meet them.  Then, let's go camping!!"  [guide the Scout to... "Tell how the menu includes the foods from MyPlate or the current USDA nutritional model and how it meets nutritional needs for the planned activity or campout." and "...make a list showing a budget and the food amounts needed to feed three or more youth. Secure the ingredients."]

Make sure it is an OFFER of OPPORTUNITY for advancement, not a demand.

My favorite question from parents, "Why isn't my Scout advancing?"  Answer: "Because he doesn't want to."  or "Because he hasn't done the requirements to advance."

[Eagle94-A1]

@5thGenTexan, WOW that is not a troop but Cub Scouts. I will give you an example of what I mean.

Last year the troop did a whitewater rafting trip. We wanted to make sure everyone going was prepared, and worked on those knowledge and skills for 3 weeks. Those folks got the Whitewater Award, and some advancement done.

[5thGenTexan]

11 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

@5thGenTexan, WOW that is not a troop but Cub Scouts. I will give you an example of what I mean.

Last year the troop did a whitewater rafting trip. We wanted to make sure everyone going was prepared, and worked on those knowledge and skills for 3 weeks. Those folks got the Whitewater Award, and some advancement done.

I am totally convinced if a Scout cooked a weenie on a coat hanger over a propane burner, all the cooking requirements would be signed off.  Its all really frustrating. 

[curious_scouter]

Better People.

[Mrjeff]

I've been around troops who had their meetings by playing basketball and it was fun.  Before they played ball they had an opening ceremony and patrol meetings where they planned their own meals without adult influence.  If they wanted bologna and Captain Crunch every meal, then that's what they had.  Has anyone ever taken kids to the grocery store and helped them shop for their food?  If not, why not?  They are expected to do things that they don't know how to do and once they know how to do it they enjoy doing it which spells FUN. 

[HashTagScouts]

7 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

I've been around troops who had their meetings by playing basketball and it was fun.  Before they played ball they had an opening ceremony and patrol meetings where they planned their own meals without adult influence.  If they wanted bologna and Captain Crunch every meal, then that's what they had.  Has anyone ever taken kids to the grocery store and helped them shop for their food?  If not, why not?  They are expected to do things that they don't know how to do and once they know how to do it they enjoy doing it which spells FUN. 

As we've said to our youth: If they want to have a campout where they sit and prepare nothing but hotdogs and s'mores, and play gaga ball and nap all afternoon, fine. Will the nights count as camping nights? Yes. Will any of that count towards advancement/MB requirements? No. If they want to change their plan to balance fun with purpose, we're available to help them with that.

[InquisitiveScouter]

2 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

I am totally convinced if a Scout cooked a weenie on a coat hanger over a propane burner, all the cooking requirements would be signed off.  Its all really frustrating. 

@5thGenTexan, I resolved long ago that I am only responsible for my actions, and no one else's.  You will always have liars, cheaters, and thieves out there.  Just stick to your principles (Scout Oath and Law) and model that for your Scouts.  And when you stray from them (as we will!!!), own it, admit it, make amends (if possible), ask forgiveness, and move on.

You will have an effect, just as the liars, cheaters, and thieves will.

[5thGenTexan]

3 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

@5thGenTexan, I resolved long ago that I am only responsible for my actions, and no one else's.  You will always have liars, cheaters, and thieves out there.  Just stick to your principles (Scout Oath and Law) and model that for your Scouts.  And when you stray from them (as we will!!!), own it, admit it, make amends (if possible), ask forgiveness, and move on.

You will have an effect, just as the liars, cheaters, and thieves will.

I just have this weird wish that Scouts will actually learn life skills that will help them overcome all sorts of adversity.  The winter storm in North Texas in Feb 2021.  Power was out, no water, etc for a lot of people.  Not something Texas is typically prepared for.  I knew we would be fine because I made a store run before and we had multiple ways to cook, get water, stay warm.  I'm not sure the way our Scouts are experiencing the program doesn't prepare them to get in out of the rain.  Lazy adults bother me.