Scout master kicked out of scouts by district.

[Benjamincook]

My troops scoutmaster has been kicked out of scouting by district. He accidentally violated the no adult-youth one on one contact rule. It was discovered by the kids parents and they complained to nationals. He then got a call that he is being kicked out of scouting. Is the a possible repeal that would let him come back? What should we do?

[Jameson76]

Interesting wording - He accidentally violated the no adult-youth one on one contact rule - If it was indeed an accident, why were the parents upset?  Seems a quick conversation with the parents could have allayed any fears and life moves on.

I am assuming once National is looped in, sort of takes on a life of it's own.

 

[BetterWithCheddar]

OP, I'm sorry to hear of your predicament. Short of a youth participant actually getting hurt, that's my nightmare as a leader / parent - to be accused of misconduct with little recourse to defend myself. I'd ask for additional context, but I don't think it matters much. You might start by petitioning your DE or District Chair, but they may be unwilling or unable to discuss the matter due to its sensitive nature. Unfortunately, zero tolerance occasionally translates to zero common sense; however, please don't completely dismiss the issue as accidental. It seems like an odd thing for a parent to complain about if they didn't suspect impropriety.  Hopefully, some more seasoned forum members can offer better suggestions. Good luck.

Edited March 4, 2023 by BetterWithCheddar

[qwazse]

@Benjamincook, welcome to the forums. Sorry it's on such challenging circumstance for your troop.

Nothing personal with the SM, but somehow he violated parents' trust. We've now learned from history that for every 999 people who had one-on-one encounters with youth with no ill intent (and with many favorable results), there was someone who took advantage of that situation to prey on multiple scouts.

Now, when adults in my troop "accidentally" find ourselves one-on-one with a scout, we promptly inform a scouter or parent of the encounter. Failing to do so sews mistrust in the troop. It can be very destructive. Sometimes, it shakes parents to the core. Even in situations where the parents are the abusers, none of us try to help the scout in the absence of other scouters. There's very little excuse for not doing so when everyone we trust is a mobile phone call away.

Learn your lessons. Appoint a new SM. Get him/her trained. Make sure everyone goes over barriers to abuse from the Guide to Safe Scouting. Scout more wisely.

Edited March 4, 2023 by qwazse

[Mrjeff]

Ouch, that is indeed a problem.  I can think of countless and legitimate situations where an adult Scouter could inadvertently find themselves in this predicament. I have seen adults pull the "YPT COMPLAINT "like a loaded pistol.  I would hope that any investigation into this was complete and thorough and done by someone without a vested interest.  Best wishes in the future.

[jcousino]

wow ,that a normal happening with my OA lodge they would leave the lodge secretary (14 y/o female alone to handle late check or have her going other lodge paper work  alone in the Adm building so following this every time a lone adult would walk in the adm build to check in and ask a question they would them totally accidentally violating ypt standard  and could be removed from BSA

[jcousino]

11 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

OP, I'm sorry to hear of your predicament. Short of a youth participant actually getting hurt, that's my nightmare as a leader / parent - to be accused of misconduct with little recourse to defend myself. I'd ask for additional context, but I don't think it matters much. You might start by petitioning your DE or District Chair, but they may be unwilling or unable to discuss the matter due to its sensitive nature. Unfortunately, zero tolerance occasionally translates to zero common sense; however, please don't completely dismiss the issue as accidental. It seems like an odd thing for a parent to complain about if they didn't suspect impropriety.  Hopefully, some more seasoned forum members can offer better suggestions. Good luck.

yes there is no recourse for the scouter , you get your letter saying thank you for your Service but they are no longer need. i very much support protecting youth but there are a few scrupulous youth that  understand how to work the system to get back at an adult that they did not like

[Wëlënakwsu]

It's been a few years, but I can advise in my Council when an adult’s membership was revoked… in addition to a prorated membership fee refund, the Scouter received information on appealing to the Region.  The decision was usually made at a Council level rather then National and preferably after consultation with the Chartered Organization Institutional Head. It is not a District (ie DE, et al) function.   Anecdotally... after appeal; membership was rarely, if ever, reinstated.

I assume it's  likely there is more to the story then only “accidentally violated" the rule.

[scoutldr]

13 hours ago, jcousino said:

wow ,that a normal happening with my OA lodge they would leave the lodge secretary (14 y/o female alone to handle late check or have her going other lodge paper work  alone in the Adm building so following this every time a lone adult would walk in the adm build to check in and ask a question they would them totally accidentally violating ypt standard  and could be removed from BSA

This is an issue that the Lodge Advisors should have recognized and remedied.  The "Buddy System" is not just for swimming.

[skeptic]

14 hours ago, Wëlënakwsu said:

It's been a few years, but I can advise in my Council when an adult’s membership was revoked… in addition to a prorated membership fee refund, the Scouter received information on appealing to the Region.  The decision was usually made at a Council level rather then National and preferably after consultation with the Chartered Organization Institutional Head. It is not a District (ie DE, et al) function.   Anecdotally... after appeal; membership was rarely, if ever, reinstated.

 

I assume it's  likely there is more to the story then only “accidentally violated" the rule.

 

It is not really that uncommon to find yourself suddenly one on one, at least for a moment.  Youth come into your space with questions or simply to get something in the general area.  You can be sittingon the porch at camp with coffee and on occasion they will appear and your realize there are no others there at the immediate moment.  That was one of my most diddicult things with which to deal as a sub teacher.  The kids would just appear on occasion and I would find myself migrating very quickly to the open area outside the door if the student was alone.  Most of these instances are completely innocent, but easily happen.

 

[Eagle94-A1]

15 hours ago, Wëlënakwsu said:

 Anecdotally... after appeal; membership was rarely, if ever, reinstated.

I have read of only 1, stressing ONE, case that ever had the person reinstated. That person went to a bar, in uniform, to make a phone call because the troop bus broke down and the bar was the closest place with a phone. He was in and out of the bar within 20 minutes, and did not order any beverages. Someone saw him walking out of the bar in uniform and called his council on him. Took several months for him to be reinstated.

Sadly I know someone who was thrown out of Scouting, had a criminal investigation into the alleged incident, and had charges dropped because the evidence showed her story to be correct. They found the peephole into the shower house and evidence of what the teen was doing. She was never reinstated.

[BetterWithCheddar]

18 hours ago, Wëlënakwsu said:

It's been a few years, but I can advise in my Council when an adult’s membership was revoked… in addition to a prorated membership fee refund, the Scouter received information on appealing to the Region.  The decision was usually made at a Council level rather then National and preferably after consultation with the Chartered Organization Institutional Head. It is not a District (ie DE, et al) function.

I didn't assume it's a district function, but connecting with a knowledgeable person on the local level may be a good place to start. I doubt one could write to Aaron on Scouting to ask "How do I get my favorite Scoutmaster reinstated after a Youth Protection violation?" and expect to receive a reply.

[Mrjeff]

I wonder just who the people are that think they can just kick someone out of Scouting.  The example of someone going into a bar and using the phone sounds like someone really jumped the gun without asking the proper questions.  That kind of thing opens another can of worms that could really explode into a stinking mess.  The CO and CC are responsible for doing the hiring so it's the same people who are responsible for any firing.   The patch police are bad enough without creating an ethics and morals police.  I know that there are sometimes disagreements within the unit that can get pretty ugly.  This could be used maliciously and do some real harm.  It's not that easy to conduct an investigation and whoever does it must work just as hard at disproving the allegation as they do in substantiation the allegation.   That's my professional/retired point of view.

[scoutldr]

Membership in BSA is at the discretion of the Scout Executive, after being approved by the CO and CC. Membership can be revoked for any reason...or no reason. You just get a letter from Council saying you are no longer a member.  That being said, if I had been the SM using the phone in the bar, and got "fired", you would have heard about it on the local evening news.

[vol_scouter]

Actually, membership is granted by the National Council of the BSA.  Membership is revoked by the National Council and that often occurs because a local Scout Executive recommends revocation.  In general, the BSA errs on the side of safety to youth so are likely to revoke membership when recommended by a SE who likewise wishes to protect children.   There is an appeals process.  

In the case that started this thread, I suspect that there is more to the story than is currently known.  The person who lost their membership will have to decide whether or not to appeal - it is not for others to do though they can support an appeal.