Cub Scout Single Night Camping Only

[KublaiKen]

Just circling back to say how helpful this thread has been. We just did annual planning this week and the PLC switched all of our Troop's monthly campouts from two nights to one. We had been inadvertently counting those two-nighters towards First Class! But read closely!

"Since joining Scouts BSA, participate in 10 separate troop/patrol activities, at least six of which must be held outdoors. Of the outdoor activities, at least three must include overnight camping."

So for the past few months we haven't been signing off on any camping trips of two or more nights, as those are not overnight camping. Too many of the guys started coming on Saturday or leaving on Saturday so the activity would count, so now the PLC just changed them. 

Thanks for clarifying!

[seattlecyclone]

Ah so we've entered the malicious compliance phase of things. I see. That's usually not a great sign.

Quote

Malicious compliance (also known as malicious obedience) is the behavior of strictly following the orders of a superior despite knowing that compliance with the orders will have an unintended or negative result. It usually implies following an order in such a way that ignores or otherwise undermines the order's intent, but follows it to the letter. A form of passive-aggressive behavior, it is often associated with poor management-labor relationships, micromanagement, a generalized lack of confidence in leadership, and resistance to changes perceived as pointless, duplicative, dangerous, or otherwise undesirable. It is common in organizations with top-down management structures lacking morale, leadership or mutual trust. In U.S. law, this practice has been theorized as a form of uncivil obedience, and it is a technique which is also used in art practice.

Managers can avoid this by not making excessive or incomprehensible demands of employees.

 

[Eagle1993]

Posted to FB:

The following was shared with all of the National Service Territories earlier today (31 July); I have been busy with other recovery tasks to fully read and vet the information provided. 

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"from the BSA Volunteer Training Team

**Changes to Cub Scout Pack Overnight Camping**

 

Effective Sept. 1, 2023, Cub Scout packs who are conducting their own overnight camping activity may now camp up to two consecutive nights. 

 

Cub Scout packs who are conducting their own overnight camping activities must continue to have at least one registered adult leader who is trained in Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO), oversees the planning, and is in attendance for the pack campout. 

 

This updated policy also applies to Webelos and Arrow of Light dens who may conduct den-coordinated campouts. The policy will be updated in the Guide to Safe Scouting and other resources on Sept. 1. An updated version of the BALOO training will also be released at this time.

 

ACTION: Reminder, Cub Scout camping is limited to their council’s designated locations with appropriate facilities. As councils prepare to communicate this change to their local packs, now is the time for the council to review the approved Cub Scout pack overnight sites and make any necessary updates. 

 

As this announcement is communicated to your packs, it is important to ensure that your council’s list of approved pack overnight camping locations is easily accessible from your website and is included in your communications. For additional information regarding Cub Scout camping, including required youth protection policies, please review the Guide to Safe Scouting."

 

(Mike Walton/Settummanque)

[Eagle94-A1]

Posted on a district website.

1

[InquisitiveScouter]

I'd like to think our discussions here had something to do with this.

Anyone have a connection to a decision-maker to be able to tell whether this is true or not??

[Eagle94-A1]

28 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I'd like to think our discussions here had something to do with this.

Anyone have a connection to a decision-maker to be able to tell whether this is true or not??

@RichardB, any reason for going back to the previous policy?

[RichardB]

5 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

@RichardB, any reason for going back to the previous policy?

This is not a revert to previous policy.   It is a change.  

[T2Eagle]

21 minutes ago, RichardB said:

This is not a revert to previous policy.   It is a change.  

OK, so why the change to the policy?  Why was it a matter of safety, or even just adjudicated as a wise policy, that last month Cubs should only campout for 1 night at a time, but now it is either safe or wise or both that Cubs can camp out for two nights?

What changed?  Why the change? 

[sierracharliescouter]

What changed, I'm pretty sure, is that there was significant push back on this from the Councils. I know I voiced opposition to this policy and I believe our SE also had problems with the one-night restriction. 

Simple fact is that in many areas you can't reserve a camp site for a single night on a weekend. So, at a basic level, you'd end up doubling the cost for the campout per night. It is also very stressful to do all the work to set up for a single night, then have to break it down less than 24 hours later. 

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, sierracharliescouter said:

What changed, I'm pretty sure, is that there was significant push back on this from the Councils. I know I voiced opposition to this policy and I believe our SE also had problems with the one-night restriction. 

Simple fact is that in many areas you can't reserve a camp site for a single night on a weekend. So, at a basic level, you'd end up doubling the cost for the campout per night. It is also very stressful to do all the work to set up for a single night, then have to break it down less than 24 hours later. 

I think the SEs complained, especially since they may lose money with units not camping at council camps*. I know the councils I have been in charged a flat, weekend fee fro Friday through Sunday. Federal, state and local camps I have been to have charged a per night rate, comparable or cheaper than the council rates for the weekend. So why pay for a full weekend, when you can pay for one nite elsewhere?

 

*I have been told that some councils have only approved council camps for Cubs, basically creating a monopoly on campsites for them. If you are in one of those councils, I would love to hear about it.

[mrjohns2]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I have been told that some councils have only approved council camps for Cubs, basically creating a monopoly on campsites for them. If you are in one of those councils, I would love to hear about it.

What if your council hasn’t communicated a list one way or the other? Our council has some nice properties that aren’t far for us, so we nearly always use them. 

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, mrjohns2 said:

What if your council hasn’t communicated a list one way or the other?

Great question.

I would ask. And if they still do not produce one, use the Order of the Arrow's Where to Go Camping Book as that is a publication of the council. That is what a lot of packs do in my area.

My council A) has never produced a list, even when members of the Council's Cub Scout Camping Committee ask for, and was pushing it to be made. A direct quote from a member of the Council's Camping Committee, which we the Cub Committee was under was " Cubs don't need to camp." Also several several of the council's properties failed to meet basic BALOO camping standards, yet they held overnight Cub camping events there anyway.

[RememberSchiff]

On occasion (two super moons this month!), one can motivate a lesser performing council by example of a Council which has a current BALOO approved camp sites list or just an approved campsite list directly accessible from their website.

Mountaineer Council (WV)

https://macbsa.org/camping/approved-campsites/

National Capital Area Council (MD)

https://www.ncacbsa.org/approved-camp-sites/

Cherokee Area Council (TN)

https://cherokeeareabsa.doubleknot.com/cub-scout-camps/baloo-approved-camps/45610

Baltimore Area Council (MD) which also includes a new Pack Site Approval Request Form

https://broadcreekbsa.org/about/approved-campsites/

Another $0.02,

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by RememberSchiff
replace shame with motivate