Change to GSS - Registration Required for Overnight

[InquisitiveScouter]

2 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

Not entirely true. It ensures every adult that is camping overnight in a Scouting program is background checked. I'm curious if that came out of documented incidents, if that's one of the changes the bankruptcy process made happen, or it's a creative way to get more in fees, as you said. The BSA is rarely transparent about such things, so if there is actual data supporting the rule change, we'll never see it. 

So, are you implying that MBCs are not background checked?

[Sentinel947]

33 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

So, are you implying that MBCs are not background checked?

No. Are you implying that all parents that aren't in fee registered positions are merit badge counselors?

[InquisitiveScouter]

35 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

No. Are you implying that all parents that aren't in fee registered positions are merit badge counselors?

No, but they should be! 

Edited February 19, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[InquisitiveScouter]

How long do you think it takes a council to get a background check done?

Parent wants to camp and unit turns in their application on Friday... goes camping that night.

Background check won't be done for a loooonnnngggg time.

Not buying that that is the drive behind this.

 

[Eagle1993]

The TCC was clear that they did not approve of the 72 hour rule.  BSA was never going to exit bankruptcy without this change.  It was one of the changes that switched TCC from rejecting to supporting the bankruptcy plan. 

It was an odd rule.  I'm not able to do nearly anything with the GSUSA without registering.  I think BSA avoided it, like they avoided the YPT training checks for years, to avoid the complaints and moaning from scouters.  

As far as MBCs, they shouldn't be hanging out overnight with the Troop.  ASMs and SMs ... Sure.  I struggle to see why a MBC in that capacity should be sleeping in a tent with a Troop. 

I'm fine with the policy change and expect it will have minimal impact to my Troop.  i wouldn't want a parent or leader near my kids who would object to the background check or registration. e

One of the major complaints I have seen is impact to family camping.... Great!  I've seen too many parents looking to just hang out with the Troop overnight.  If this puts a barrier up so scouting can return to only necessary leaders and scouts I see this as a win.  Having 7 parents and 12 scouts at camporees is just not what scouting is about.

 

[qwazse]

7 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

The TCC was clear that they did not approve of the 72 hour rule.  BSA was never going to exit bankruptcy without this change.  It was one of the changes that switched TCC from rejecting to supporting the bankruptcy plan. 

It was an odd rule.  I'm not able to do nearly anything with the GSUSA without registering.  I think BSA avoided it, like they avoided the YPT training checks for years, to avoid the complaints and moaning from scouters.  

As far as MBCs, they shouldn't be hanging out overnight with the Troop.  ASMs and SMs ... Sure.  I struggle to see why a MBC in that capacity should be sleeping in a tent with a Troop. 

I'm fine with the policy change and expect it will have minimal impact to my Troop.  i wouldn't want a parent or leader near my kids who would object to the background check or registration. e

One of the major complaints I have seen is impact to family camping.... Great!  I've seen too many parents looking to just hang out with the Troop overnight.  If this puts a barrier up so scouting can return to only necessary leaders and scouts I see this as a win.  Having 7 parents and 12 scouts at camporees is just not what scouting is about.

 

Scouters across the nation were clearly doing an end-around and dropping their registrations as direct contact leaders to avoid exorbitant fees. But just because they are now MBCs, many of them are competent leaders who are very helpful to have around. They are just making the registration fees more expensive for the rest of us.

Sooner or later BSA would shore up that loophole. That’s why my troop pays for leaders’ registration fees. (It amounts to maybe an extra hour of the scouts washing cars.) I think it’s kinda dumb and make up for it by providing a little extra here and there, but it removes one barrier to good parents signing on and getting trained.

[Eagle1993]

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

my troop pays for leaders’ registration fees

My Troop also pays the leaders' registration fees.  We have one primary fundraiser that does very well.  Part of the profit goes to scout accounts.   The other goes to Troop expenses which includes adult fees.  The $0 MBC was really about not charging the local weatherman or pilot who would like to volunteer to be a MBC.  It was never about an end around for those closely associated with Troops. If that local weatherman is looking to camp with the Troop then they are likely not just a MBC.

[mrjohns2]

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

The $0 MBC was really about not charging the local weatherman or pilot who would like to volunteer to be a MBC. 

Exactly. Anyone complaining is just sad their corporate loophole doesn't exist anymore.  Everyone is right, this is about money. But units weren't using the "free" membership as intended. Ok?

[swilliams]

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

My Troop also pays the leaders' registration fees.  We have one primary fundraiser that does very well.  Part of the profit goes to scout accounts.   The other goes to Troop expenses which includes adult fees.  The $0 MBC was really about not charging the local weatherman or pilot who would like to volunteer to be a MBC.  It was never about an end around for those closely associated with Troops. If that local weatherman is looking to camp with the Troop then they are likely not just a MBC.

Our Troop pays for the adults as well, but after this latest recharter we're discussing no longer doing so.  With the rising costs, and our dwindling number of scouts, we can't afford it.  In the past we had 5 SM/ASM's and 8 Committee members, with 70 scouts.  Now we're down to 30 scouts, but only dropped one ASM and one Committee member.  Money coming in from our fundraiser is way down, and we don't want the Troop to become more about trying to raise money than scouting.  Not sure what we'll end up doing.   Also, we have three special-needs scouts and a parent always come with them on the few trips they attend.  

[Sentinel947]

2 hours ago, swilliams said:

Our Troop pays for the adults as well, but after this latest recharter we're discussing no longer doing so.  With the rising costs, and our dwindling number of scouts, we can't afford it.  In the past we had 5 SM/ASM's and 8 Committee members, with 70 scouts.  Now we're down to 30 scouts, but only dropped one ASM and one Committee member.  Money coming in from our fundraiser is way down, and we don't want the Troop to become more about trying to raise money than scouting.  Not sure what we'll end up doing.   Also, we have three special-needs scouts and a parent always come with them on the few trips they attend.  

Maybe cover half the adult fee rather than the full thing? It is an acknowledgement that their help is appreciated, but the economic reality is also changing. 

[curious_scouter]

On 2/18/2023 at 6:23 PM, Sentinel947 said:

Not entirely true. It ensures every adult that is camping overnight in a Scouting program is background checked. I'm curious if that came out of documented incidents, if that's one of the changes the bankruptcy process made happen, or it's a creative way to get more in fees, as you said. The BSA is rarely transparent about such things, so if there is actual data supporting the rule change, we'll never see it. 

This could have been done by restricting camping to only "registered leaders".  The decision to make it "fee required" seems intentional and if so, purely financially motivated IMO.  A MB Counselor, in my council at least, is required to take YPT and submit to a background check - but pays no fee.  Previously, these persons could attend outings and support my unit as one of the 2-up.  NOW, they would have to fork over almost $100 (fees for registered adults in my area are close to $100 annually now) AND be welcomed onto the committee or as an ASM (higher bar in my unit than MB counselor) so in addition to the financial barrier, there's a qualification and level of commitment barrier added too. 

[curious_scouter]

On 2/19/2023 at 7:57 AM, qwazse said:

They are just making the registration fees more expensive for the rest of us.

This is likely.  Fair is fair though, if by this rule the # of paid leaders increases notably - the fees should decrease similarly.  They won't. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

4 minutes ago, curious_scouter said:

This is likely.  Fair is fair though, if by this rule the # of paid leaders increases notably - the fees should decrease similarly.  They won't. 

Hey, man, just drink the kool-aid and pay the fees.  Gotta FOS!! (Fund Our Salaries)

[HashTagScouts]

59 minutes ago, curious_scouter said:

This could have been done by restricting camping to only "registered leaders".  The decision to make it "fee required" seems intentional and if so, purely financially motivated IMO.  A MB Counselor, in my council at least, is required to take YPT and submit to a background check - but pays no fee.  Previously, these persons could attend outings and support my unit as one of the 2-up.  NOW, they would have to fork over almost $100 (fees for registered adults in my area are close to $100 annually now) AND be welcomed onto the committee or as an ASM (higher bar in my unit than MB counselor) so in addition to the financial barrier, there's a qualification and level of commitment barrier added too. 

If you are concerned about additional responsibilities, use the Unit Scouter Reserve position. They are not ASMs nor Committee members. 

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, HashTagScouts said:

If you are concerned about additional responsibilities, use the Unit Scouter Reserve position. They are not ASMs nor Committee members. 

I think folks are more concerned about A. allowing Scout activities to be open to parents which is something BSA has promoted, and B. financial situation of families. I am so glad my oldest is out and Middle ages out this year. But if these prices were around when all 5 of us in my family were involved, it would be over $400 just to register.