How To Enter Paper Book Advancements into Scoutbook

[Alec27]

Hello All, 

I have a few scouts that would like to start using Scoutbook with their parents but up until recently have been recording their req's, activity logs, etc in the paper book.  What is the correct way to enter that info into Scoutbook ?  Thank you All !

[mrjohns2]

20 hours ago, Alec27 said:

What is the correct way to enter that info into Scoutbook ? 

Make sure the Scout has access. This must be granted by the parent. Ask on a regular basis for Scouts to “sync the books” with Scoutbook. They can enter the requirements as done. An adult can then concur if they agree. 
 

The same can be done with activity logs. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

It is best if you can get Scouts to "take care of themselves" as @mrjohns2 indicates.

However, this requires a few things:

1.  The Scout must have an email address to have their own Scoutbook account.  (Many parents balk at this for 10.5 - 12 year olds... don't get me started there.)

2.  A parent who is connected to Scoutbook and can reasonably navigate the application.

3.  The parent must invite the Scout to connect to Scoutbook and finish creating their account.

4.  The Scout has to find out how to enter logbook activities, which is not an intuitive process.

5.  A Unit leader who monitors Scoutbook routinely and goes through the process of approving entries.

Now, imagine if you will, 20 Scouts went on last week's camping trip.  Not all 20 are gonna make an entry.  Of the ones who do (say 10), they are gonna call that activity 10 different names and will put in 10 different accounting for days, nights, miles hiked, frost points, service hours, etc.

Our solution:  for every event, we have a youth planner (who reports to the PLC), and an adult planner who mentors that youth through the process.  At the end of the event, there is an accounting (if you will) of everyone who went on the event, how much it cost, how many miles, nights, hours, etc.  This is done with a spreadsheet. The adult planner is responsible to work with someone with edit access to input all data in Scoutbook.

Scouts should absolutely track all their data in their Scout Handbook, reconcile that with Scoutbook from time to time, and point out discrepancies to whomever is designated to handle that stuff (in our unit, that's their assigned ASM, and/or the Advancement Chair)

One technique we use is that, any time a date or data is input into Scoutbook, we then highlight it in BLUE in the Scout's Handbook.  Makes it really easy to tell what is new stuff, and what has already been input.

If you have a more elegant solution, I'd love to hear it and copy your success!

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[fred8033]

I'm a huge advocate of using the paper handbook.  Scouts should always have their paper handbook; campouts, meetings, etc. 

The online scout book is a nice view, but I am always concerned that is the entry being made by the scout or an overly zealous parent.  I'm concerned about expecting to use expensive tech on camp outs.  I'm concerned about the handbook narratives being there when needed. 

Also, scouts should focus on being active.  I really have a problem expecting scouts to double enter the data from the paper handbook into the online scout book.  

[InquisitiveScouter]

15 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

I'm a huge advocate of using the paper handbook.  Scouts should always have their paper handbook; campouts, meetings, etc. 

The online scout book is a nice view, but I am always concerned that is the entry being made by the scout or an overly zealous parent.  I'm concerned about expecting to use expensive tech on camp outs.  I'm concerned about the handbook narratives being there when needed. 

Also, scouts should focus on being active.  I really have a problem expecting scouts to double enter the data from the paper handbook into the online scout book.  

Agreed.  That is the primary resource for the Scouts.  Scoutbook is the primary tracking tool we adults use, as it provides much more utility.

[mrjohns2]

3 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Now, imagine if you will, 20 Scouts went on last week's camping trip.  Not all 20 are gonna make an entry. 

I left out that until these activity logs improve, we have our advancement coordinator make it for the troop. 
 

The Scribe, SPL, or ASPL does take attendance in Scoutbook. The advancement coordinator uses that to log nights camped. 

[curious_scouter]

Also an advocate for paper book.  In our unit that's the official record. 

Today SB is updated by our adv chair after a successful BOR but does not include the individual requirement dates - only the BOR is updated.

We have a handful of newer Scouts and families entering progress directly.  You need to set expectations with them.  As many are coming in from Cubs, their belief is they are "signing off" on the requirement by doing that.  They get frustrated to find out later it's really just a "heads up" the Scout is ready to test on those.  They still need to meet with someone in the unit authorized to sign off on requirements.  But.. if you can get ahead of expectations I think it's really handy to be able to see the actual progress of the troop online at a glance.

I'm a data driven guy.  Someone has volunteered to start loading Scout-->First class status into SB for us time to time.  This will help us because we can then pull reports from SB and find out like "23 Scouts need this specific requirement".  The PLC can use that to plan meetings and outings that have more impact.

Because MBs go straight into SB we have been able to do this kind of report for Eagle Required badges.  That's helped the PLC as well as the leadership.  It's been helping us to help scouts avoid panic later "Hey buddy, you have like 10 eagle required badges left to finish and you're getting older.  Might want to knock off 3 or 4 at summer camp this year and keep your eyes open for other chances to get them done."  It's been very beneficial, just that bit of "hey buddy" has been enough to encourage some good decisions and proactive action.

[InquisitiveScouter]

24 minutes ago, curious_scouter said:

Also an advocate for paper book.  In our unit that's the official record. 

Today SB is updated by our adv chair after a successful BOR but does not include the individual requirement dates - only the BOR is updated.

We have a handful of newer Scouts and families entering progress directly.  You need to set expectations with them.  As many are coming in from Cubs, their belief is they are "signing off" on the requirement by doing that.  They get frustrated to find out later it's really just a "heads up" the Scout is ready to test on those.  They still need to meet with someone in the unit authorized to sign off on requirements.  But.. if you can get ahead of expectations I think it's really handy to be able to see the actual progress of the troop online at a glance.

I'm a data driven guy.  Someone has volunteered to start loading Scout-->First class status into SB for us time to time.  This will help us because we can then pull reports from SB and find out like "23 Scouts need this specific requirement".  The PLC can use that to plan meetings and outings that have more impact.

Because MBs go straight into SB we have been able to do this kind of report for Eagle Required badges.  That's helped the PLC as well as the leadership.  It's been helping us to help scouts avoid panic later "Hey buddy, you have like 10 eagle required badges left to finish and you're getting older.  Might want to knock off 3 or 4 at summer camp this year and keep your eyes open for other chances to get them done."  It's been very beneficial, just that bit of "hey buddy" has been enough to encourage some good decisions and proactive action.

Concur, to a point...

We had a Scout who was working on Tenderfoot.  He did not take good care of his book, and his requirements page ripped out, and he lost the page with his progress.

I sat with him, read through the requirements, and asked him if he could remember which requirements he had completed, and with whom.  I was going to help him verify, and was prepared to take him at his word for many.

For some, he said he could not remember.  He asked me if he was going to have to re-do the requirements, and I told him yes, for the ones you cannot remember or that we cannot verify.  Later that week I got a message from his Mom that he was leaving Scouting.

Now, there were many other factors at play with that young man, and I know he was having a rough go in other areas of his life.  This seemed to be one thing he simply was unwilling to stick with, given the speed bump he had hit.

I do believe, had his items been backed up in Scoutbook, and allowed for an easy recovery from this, he'd still be in Scouting today.

We tell our Scouts that the primary written record is their Scout Handbook.  But we warn them (this Scout included), that written records are fragile, especially in the hands of an active 12 year old.  We are happy to help them by recording things in Scoutbook, but the responsibility for seeing that is done is on their shoulders!

About 80% of our Scouts are diligent in syncing the two systems of record.

Very few do not have anything recorded in Scoutbook, and we do as @curious_scouter does above... when they meet their BoR with their Scout Handbook, the Advancement chair records the BoR in Scoutbook, and we award the rank.

Without a backup record, it is only a matter of time until this happens again.

We also tell Scouts to take a picture of their requirements page, as a sufficient record, especially if it becomes detached.  We have reconstructed a record in Scoutbook from a picture like that....

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[curious_scouter]

Yeah loss/damage of a book happens.  Our SPL announces "Everyone, take pictures of your book tonight" at the first meeting of every month for this exact reason.  The adv chair also snaps photos at every BOR and attaches them to the note in SB for the BOR so they are preserved.  It's better than nothing and avoids a full rebuild.

 

 

[qwazse]

3 hours ago, curious_scouter said:

Yeah loss/damage of a book happens.  Our SPL announces "Everyone, take pictures of your book tonight" at the first meeting of every month for this exact reason.  The adv chair also snaps photos at every BOR and attaches them to the note in SB for the BOR so they are preserved.  It's better than nothing and avoids a full rebuild.

The "holy grail" app would be one that converts pictures of a signed and dated requirements into scout book entries.

[MattR]

On 2/2/2023 at 10:38 AM, InquisitiveScouter said:

For some, he said he could not remember.  He asked me if he was going to have to re-do the requirements, and I told him yes, for the ones you cannot remember or that we cannot verify.  Later that week I got a message from his Mom that he was leaving Scouting.

I started off doing that but did things a bit differently later on, especially for tenderfoot. That rank can be done in a day, so I told the scout that we could probably get it done in a couple of hours spread throughout the day on a campout we were on. The scout saw a solution not too far off, we both worked hard, he succeeded where he thought it was a failure and I helped him out.

Rather than a record keeping issue it's about finding opportunities to help a scout deal with a problem. There are plenty of opportunities to reinforce the skills so a couple of corners were cut but the tradeoff of having a young scout turn devastation into success, priceless.

This is one of the reasons I'm not keen on how requirements are handled. There are lots of rules on dealing with check boxes but it doesn't relate to how scouts learn. Most 11 year olds don't have the dexterity to sharpen a knife and so the one and done approach just leads to kids that stay away from knives because they really know they don't know but the patch on their shirt says they do. So they hide it and make excuses for not using the skill. 11 is a great time to start learning but the requirements do the opposite.

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, MattR said:

That rank can be done in a day,

Well... 30 days... right?

6b.	Develop and describe a plan for improvement in each of the activities listed in Tenderfoot requirement 6a. Keep track of your activity for at least 30 days.
6c.	Show improvement (of any degree) in each activity listed in Tenderfoot requirement 6a after practicing for 30 days. 30 days later Push-ups ________ (Record the number done correctly in 60 seconds) Sit-ups or curl-ups________ (Record the number done correctly in 60 seconds)   Back-saver sit-and-reach _________ (Record the distance stretched) 1 mile walk/run _____________ (record the time)

[curious_scouter]

On 2/2/2023 at 4:35 PM, qwazse said:

The "holy grail" app would be one that converts pictures of a signed and dated requirements into scout book entries.

believe, I've thought about it.  Should be possible honestly.  I mean... from a "can it be done" not a "will it be done" perspective.