Cub Scout Changes

[qwazse]

Setting aside that I thought turning Scout into a rank was pointless, now that it is a rank ...

We had several AoL crossovers who were still struggling with square knots. That's not to disrespect the program. We had a dozen crossovers, about half of them knew their knots well enough to quickly demonstrate them.

I think the pandemic was part of the problem. But, also, it's not in the nature of 10-year-olds to retain those kinds of motor skills. Scouts who are camping every month have greater odds of actually needing those skills.

No rubber stamps. It's a good life lesson to know that it's not about the patch. You have to be prepared to actually demonstrate the skills you claim to have.

[HashTagScouts]

Agree with @qwaze on not just automatically giving the Scout rank badge. For us, the very first campout that the AoL crossovers attend with the troop, they can breeze through "reviewing" all of the Scout requirements and most will have no issue with being ready that night to have their SMC and be awarded the rank on Sunday morning. And that is appropriate. For the small number that struggle with a requirement or two, they are not massive issues and the kid can still have their SMC and get encouraged to come to the meting that week and 99.9% of the time they will receive their award that night. We aren't solving some massive crisis of "holding kids up on advancement" if BSA makes this change.

[Oldscout448]

21 hours ago, KublaiKen said:

When did it switch to SMC, anyway? In olden times it was a Personal Growth Agreement Conference.

That kinda depends on what you consider to be "olden times"  I think it was a SMC until '73 then it became a PGAC.  I'm not sure when it switched back.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Oldscout448

[KublaiKen]

13 minutes ago, Oldscout448 said:

That kinda depends on what you consider to be "olden times"  I think it was a SMC until '73 then it became a PGAC.  I'm not sure when it switched back.

Yes, I guess there is nothing more relative than "olden." 😁

[AltadenaCraig]

Random reactions (in no particular order):

• Changes to Cub Program:  so this explains it.  I've had a devil of a time relating to the current program since the demise of "Program Helps".  That was a huge help to me when I was Cubmaster.  Hopefully they can resurrect something like that when they finalize a new program.
• TOTALLY agree with those troops which funnel volunteering adults through the Committee their first year.  Gotta unlearn the DL mode.
• "Proficiency"?  When has it ever been about "proficiency"?  Even B-P himself emphasized relative merit between capable and less capable scouts.  And when asked about "standards" Green-Bar-Bill replied "to a Scout's standard, of course!"  I've seen too many SM's & ASM's get in the way of scouts having fun in the name of "proficiency".
• I'm kinda ambivalent about Lions & Tigers, but I get that so many organizations (YMCA "Guides") capture kids earlier and earlier that BSA feels the need to compete.

my $.02

[curious_scouter]

On 2/3/2023 at 3:28 PM, Eagle1993 said:

1. Every rank will switch to 6 required adventures and 2 electives.  It is not clear if this is the correct #s; however, what was made clear is every rank will have the identical # of required & elective adventures.
2. Bobcat is no longer a rank, it will be an adventure that must be earned for every rank
3. Webelos & AOL will be completely separate.  Webelos will go to 1 year.  AOL will be full focused on bridging to scouts BSA and much more focus will be on linking AOL scouts to a Scouts BSA Troop.
4. If a scout earns AOL, when they cross over to Scouts BSA, they automatically earn Scout rank.

 

1 - don't care

2 - don't care

3 - Kinda like it

4 - Hard no.  Hate it.  Why?  Standard of advancement changes.  Unless they change it for AOL too.  Standard for completing in Cubs is "Do your best".  And most / many requirement say "With help if necessary".  I believe pretty strongly you need to know the Scout Oath and law to get your Scout badge.  It's not a huge lift from the standards of Cubs but it's a very important first step IMO to leaving "do your best" behind.

Edited February 6, 2023 by curious_scouter
*if neccesary

[malraux]

On 2/3/2023 at 3:28 PM, Eagle1993 said:

So ... I'm not aware of all of the changes.  Some that may be coming 

Out of question, do you know when these changes will get rolled out? I’ve got a day camp to plan out and I’d like it if I can be ready for whatever is coming. I suspect the plan is to have these changes for next program year but that’ll start with day camp. 

[Eagle94-A1]

I know when the June 2015  Program Changes came out, they started releasing info in January 2015. However when the December 2016 changes came out, they gave no advance warning, including no warning to the committee that created the June 2015 program. There was so little notice when December 2016 came out, that my pack decided to continue using the June 2015 program until the end of the school year since the changes made would have affected  the plans we made for the rest of the school year.

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Eagle94-A1

[Eagle1993]

1 hour ago, malraux said:

Out of question, do you know when these changes will get rolled out? I’ve got a day camp to plan out and I’d like it if I can be ready for whatever is coming. I suspect the plan is to have these changes for next program year but that’ll start with day camp. 

I was told after bankruptcy is closed out.  

I wouldn't worry about planning for these yet. I heard of these second hand and the final implementation may be different. That said, change is coming. Costs, tools, program, leadership, councils, COs, camps, etc. could all be impacted.  BSA, while having a decent recruiting year, considers themselves at war (per a slide displayed in bankruptcy).  The insurance company lawyer asked about the war reference and BSA rep didn't really answer.   I think BSA sees themselves at war with survival.  They will not survive if changes are not made.  Their debt burden and costs are simply too high.  Another slide alluded to an opinion that the changes can not be democratic.  So, councils will be forced to merge, programs will change. 

If I hear of rumors I'll post them here. Not to cause disruption but to get feedback from experienced scouters.  Perhaps some in National could see the comments as an early indication of acceptance or at least areas of concern.  

I'm not taking any action at my unit level other than preparing my Committee that we may need to be flexible over the next couple of years. Not much else to do until we hear details.

[Eagle94-A1]

40 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

 Costs, tools, program, leadership, councils, COs, camps, etc. could all be impacted...  Another slide alluded to an opinion that the changes can not be democratic.  So, councils will be forced to merge, programs will change. 

There are many in my neck of the woods that are so tired of the lies and lack of transparency, that they are hoping that the council mergers happen sooner rather than later. We've already lost one camp, and slated to lose another. Money from those two camps will go to the the main camp' s improvements. And the main camp needs an additional $5 million in improvements, so they willhave a capital campaign,. Either the pros are not telling the board what is going on, or the board has their head in the sand. And considering the last SE was fired by the board, a lot of us think it is the former. It has been leaked a that national will force a lot of camp closures as we supposedly have an overabundance of camps.

As for Program Changes, The leaked CHURCHILL PLAN already stated the max age across all programs,  Sea Scouts, OA, Exploring, and Venturing will be 18. And while a grass roots movement stymied that, National did state in their press release that they reserve the right to review the age limits in the future.

 

Quote

If I hear of rumors I'll post them here. Not to cause disruption but to get feedback from experienced scouters.  Perhaps some in National could see the comments as an early indication of acceptance or at least areas of concern.  

PLEASE! (That's me begging, not shouting  )   90+% of the time, what is heard here, and elsewhere is accurate. I know I have posted stuff from here, including press releases, and have been asked to take them down, even the press releases. I have found out things before pros have. Again there is a major lack of transparency in my council.

 

Quote

I'm not taking any action at my unit level other than preparing my Committee that we may need to be flexible over the next couple of years. Not much else to do until we hear details.

I hope we survive that long. My council has been of very little help.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Eagle94-A1

[InquisitiveScouter]

LOL, you are right.  I am often the one "breaking news" to our pros and district/council volunteers here based on things I have picked up here.

Thanks for having a place where we can openly and civilly (well, at least attempt to, if you look at other threads) discuss our Scouting program!

 

[Eagle1993]

One change announced today - K4 through 4th grade Cub Scout Dens can now be coed.

 

[SSScout]

Sloooowly I turned.... step by step....

[HashTagScouts]

3 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

One change announced today - K4 through 4th grade Cub Scout Dens can now be coed.

 

If your Council is like mine, for the past year + that the coed den pilot has been in place, every family pack has been encouraged to do this. It was a foregone conclusion this was going to become permanent.

[Eagle1993]

Apparently they compared membership rates between packs with single gender dens and coed dens and found coed performed better.