Cub Scout Changes

[Eagle1993]

I have heard recently that there are changes coming to the Cub Scout program.  I'll hold back the specifics for now, but I am curious as to what changes you would like to see.  It sounds like changes are in the advanced planning stage and are pending the closure of bankruptcy (hopefully March).  If you were running Cub Scouts, what would you do?

 

[Eagledad]

2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I have heard recently that there are changes coming to the Cub Scout program.  I'll hold back the specifics for now, but I am curious as to what changes you would like to see.  It sounds like changes are in the advanced planning stage and are pending the closure of bankruptcy (hopefully March).  If you were running Cub Scouts, what would you do?

 

Shorten the program 2 years to prevent burnout. That one change would double the crossovers into the troops.

Barry

[SSScout]

What would I do?   Go back and re-read The Jungle Book.....

 

[Navybone]

56 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Shorten the program 2 years to prevent burnout. That one change would double the crossovers into the troops.

Barry

Your thought is to get rid of Tiger and Lion?

 

[Eagledad]

53 minutes ago, Navybone said:

Your thought is to get rid of Tiger and Lion?

 

Yes, their maturity is closer to toddlers and very demanding of the adults. I think the Wolf/Bear/Webelos programs are adequate and don’t require much tuning.

If National really believes membership is reliant on the toddler age group, they should look at something like the Girl Scout program that has a separated more simple program for that age.

Professionals say 20 months is the average time to expect from volunteers in any volunteer organization. Experienced has proven that to be about right. Burned out volunteers dredge boring programs that drive families away. 

Barry

Edited January 30, 2023 by Eagledad

[GrubKnot]

Have to agree with Eagledad.  Wolf, Bear & Webelos is enough. Make AOL rank for motivated, high achieving scouts.

[malraux]

I roughly agree that my ideal program for cubs would break the program in half roughly and have k-2 grade youth in a different unit than 3-5. The k-2 program would be a monthly meeting only. The 3-5 program would be more like a webelos program with more space to be adventurous and meet more often compared to the younger kids.
 

I also would do something to change how pack meetings are generally conceived because way too many are focused on giving out awards and being boring.

[KublaiKen]

1 hour ago, GrubKnot said:

Have to agree with Eagledad.  Wolf, Bear & Webelos is enough. Make AOL rank for motivated, high achieving scouts.

In other words, exactly how it was when I was in, 1975-1978.

[MattR]

I've already mentioned this elsewhere but I'd chuck all of the advancement and turn the program into playing outdoors.  Then, the cubscout handbook is nothing but ideas on how to play outdoors. The den leader handbook would be ideas how to play outdoors, safely. It's something nearly every kid would want to do. No schedules, no requirements. Pinewood derby is fine, as is kick the can. If the scouts want to do arts and crafts or go to the fire station, that's fine. And there's no need to keep track of how they played in order to give them bling because that's the definition of playing.

The result would be a certain number of parents losing their minds. But I suspect it could get a lot more kids interested in scouting.

[Eagle94-A1]

40 minutes ago, KublaiKen said:

In other words, exactly how it was when I was in, 1975-1978.

Kinda. Prior to  1989, Wolfs= 3rd grade, Bears = 4th, and Webelos=5th. Tigers was added in August 1982 officially, and was for 2nd graders. In 1989, they dropped Tigers to 1st, Wolfs to  2nd, Bears to 3rd,  and Webelos became an 18-24 month program to better transition Cubs and their families to Scouts. sadly the WDL training has regressed, and Webelos are not beginning the transition until 5th grade again, and in some cases with 6 months OR LESS (emphasis).

My idea

1.  Make Lions and Tigers a separate program. 

2. Revise Webelos requirements to include SCOUTING ADVENTURE as a Webelos requirement instead of a AOL requirement. I have seen some dens not work on that requirement until a month before Crossover. And in my experience, the earlier the transition begins, the better prepared the Webelos are.

3. BRING BACK LIVE TRAINING FOR WEBELOS DLs AND REEMPHASIZE TRANSITION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( emphasis for you, Screaming at the top of my longs at National). Transition from Cubs to Scouts is hard, especially for parents. The earlier they get onboard, the better it is. Also If the Cubs are prepared, they will stay longer. In prior posts I've talked about how one den that began transition 1 month before Cross Over  had all but 2 Scouts leave within 2 years, whiel the den that transitioned in 4th grade had 100% at the 3 year mark, and 80% currently.

[Jameson76]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

3. BRING BACK LIVE TRAINING FOR WEBELOS DLs AND REEMPHASIZE TRANSITION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( emphasis for you, Screaming at the top of my longs at National). Transition from Cubs to Scouts is hard, especially for parents. The earlier they get onboard, the better it is. Also If the Cubs are prepared, they will stay longer. In prior posts I've talked about how one den that began transition 1 month before Cross Over  had all but 2 Scouts leave within 2 years, whiel the den that transitioned in 4th grade had 100% at the 3 year mark, and 80% currently.

Agree.  I do see many of the AOL patrols (dens??) that have no prep and expect Scouts to be just more cub scouting.  The whole independence, youth led is lost.  Parents seem to have culture shock that there is not hovering and social promotion.

Also grades 3 - 5 is all that is needed.  Do you really need to go to the fire station leventy nine times??

[yknot]

3 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Also grades 3 - 5 is all that is needed.  Do you really need to go to the fire station leventy nine times??

That, and the fact that the cub program itself is very redundant with the school curriculum. They are doing a lot of these things two, three, and four times in the course of a couple years. In my district, almost every kindergarten class goes to the police station and the fire station. Plus fire stations are a popular kid party place. There leventy nine other examples of that in cubs.  

[HashTagScouts]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Kinda. Prior to  1989, Wolfs= 3rd grade, Bears = 4th, and Webelos=5th. Tigers was added in August 1982 officially, and was for 2nd graders. In 1989, they dropped Tigers to 1st, Wolfs to  2nd, Bears to 3rd,  and Webelos became an 18-24 month program to better transition Cubs and their families to Scouts. sadly the WDL training has regressed, and Webelos are not beginning the transition until 5th grade again, and in some cases with 6 months OR LESS (emphasis).

My idea

1.  Make Lions and Tigers a separate program. 

2. Revise Webelos requirements to include SCOUTING ADVENTURE as a Webelos requirement instead of a AOL requirement. I have seen some dens not work on that requirement until a month before Crossover. And in my experience, the earlier the transition begins, the better prepared the Webelos are.

3. BRING BACK LIVE TRAINING FOR WEBELOS DLs AND REEMPHASIZE TRANSITION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( emphasis for you, Screaming at the top of my longs at National). Transition from Cubs to Scouts is hard, especially for parents. The earlier they get onboard, the better it is. Also If the Cubs are prepared, they will stay longer. In prior posts I've talked about how one den that began transition 1 month before Cross Over  had all but 2 Scouts leave within 2 years, whiel the den that transitioned in 4th grade had 100% at the 3 year mark, and 80% currently.

Year-over-year, RT has had the January topic as the "Webelos transition". Not the right headline, with AoL being a rank, so right there the whole topic goes off the rails. Also spends way too much time talking about the more "physical" attributes like the crossover ceremony, rather than hammering home to the Packs that if they haven't been direct to parents that there is an actual difference between Cubs and Scouts BSA, they've missed the boat. I've gone hoarse trying to explain this to the Cub RT commissioner. 

We lost the the narrative a long time ago IMO that Scouts BSA is not just a seamless transition from Cubs, and that the Cub program was started to give younger kiddos a formal environment to dabble in some of the same activities as their older siblings. it has become so structured (too structured) and advancement/awards/accolade driven, that no one should be surprised that parents have the same expectation that it will be the same in Scouts BSA. I've never had a parent whose kid was not in Cubs give pushback that "my kid is not advancing quickly enough" or "when can you give my kid his BoR". I've only ever had this from parents whose kid was in Cubs. One of the most significant factors of why we won't let a parent be registered as anything other than Troop Committee for the first year after their kid crosses over, so they can observe how different it is from that hands-on experience of Cubmaster/DL to ASM.    

[Eagle94-A1]

39 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

Cub program ... has become so structured (too structured) and advancement/awards/accolade driven, that no one should be surprised that parents have the same expectation that it will be the same in Scouts BSA. I've never had a parent whose kid was not in Cubs give pushback that "my kid is not advancing quickly enough" or "when can you give my kid his BoR". I've only ever had this from parents whose kid was in Cubs. 

Also they want Scouts BSA to be family camping. The Scouts planned a fun camp out, and it morphed into a family camp out because all the new families  decided to show up as well. Since we had canoes, we did go over strokes so they could go around the lake and have fun. Races, "War Canoe" obstacles courses, etc. Just basic stroke practice. One Scout and his mom showed up late.. She got ticked off when she found out that we were not doing that warranted advancement getting signed off, just having fun. She yells, '"What is even the point of this camp out?" I replied "To have fun." I got a look of disgust and anger from her. She goes, talks to another mother for a while, then gets her son and leaves. About a week or two later, one dad posts on the facebook page asking why the troop isn't continuing on Canoeing MB since they had started it. Thankfully the SPL saw the post and responded that the PLC had not planned Canoeing MB, it was a fun activity, and that they planed to focus for the month on preparing for the district camporee. Over time we lost almost all of that den.

[Eagle94-A1]

55 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

One of the most significant factors of why we won't let a parent be registered as anything other than Troop Committee for the first year after their kid crosses over, so they can observe how different it is from that hands-on experience of Cubmaster/DL to ASM.    

In several troops I've been in, that is the case. Even adults who know better, go into "DL Mode."

It takes 12-24 months for a Cub Scout Leader to  "unlearn what you have learned," and become a Scouter.