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What's the maximum age for Cub Scouts? Completing 5th grade?

Armymutt

By Armymutt
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Armymutt Senior Member

Armymutt

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I have a parent who really wants his son to earn the AOL.  Their pack folded a couple of years ago and they finally came to us in December 2022.  The boy turns 11 in April.  In order to meet the 6 month requirement, he'd have to be registered by now, right?  I recommended that he just wait a couple of months and join the troop, but the dad isn't accepting of that idea.  As of Feb 25, we will no longer have an AOL Den Leader, so it will be 100% on the dad to make sure everything gets done.  I'm not sure how we get the 6 months in between now and the end of the school year on June 9.  

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yknot Senior Member

yknot

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1 hour ago, Armymutt said:

I have a parent who really wants his son to earn the AOL.  Their pack folded a couple of years ago and they finally came to us in December 2022.  The boy turns 11 in April.  In order to meet the 6 month requirement, he'd have to be registered by now, right?  I recommended that he just wait a couple of months and join the troop, but the dad isn't accepting of that idea.  As of Feb 25, we will no longer have an AOL Den Leader, so it will be 100% on the dad to make sure everything gets done.  I'm not sure how we get the 6 months in between now and the end of the school year on June 9.  

Where does end of school year have a set date? We used to get out as late as June 28. Some private schools got out later or earlier. Our Council used to have a Webelos Woods camp out for cross overs in July after everyone was out. For kids who are taking make up courses, the end of the school year is over the summer. Unless that's some rule I've missed, I think it's probably any date before Labor Day. 

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fred8033 Senior Member

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"came to us in December 2022".  So then, the boy effectively finishes six month requirements sometime in May.    Arrived with you Dec 15th means six months on May 15th.  

IMHO, I would not be overly legalistic with this AOL requirement as the scout won't gain anything with those last few weeks after the rest of the AOL den moves on.  Sometimes I do apply the common sense rule "what does it serve?"  In this case, there will not be any gain.  In fact, the scout could then be out-of-sync with the rest of the scouts that cross over. ... Sometimes you have to be flexible to avoid having the parent damage the scout's journey.

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DannyG Senior Member

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I had a similar situation when I was the AOL den leader. A brand new scout joined in 5th grade, while the rest of the den had been  together since Tigers. He worked really hard to catch up, earning Bobcat, Whittle Chip, etc. But when the rest of the den was ready to bridge up, he wasn't. He wanted to stay in the Pack. So I made an agreement with his parents and the 4th grade Webelos den leader, that he could join their den for a month to finish AOL requirements and elective. I think it worked out for everybody. You just have to be flexible and do what's best for the scout.

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Armymutt Senior Member

Armymutt

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17 hours ago, yknot said:

Where does end of school year have a set date? We used to get out as late as June 28. Some private schools got out later or earlier. Our Council used to have a Webelos Woods camp out for cross overs in July after everyone was out. For kids who are taking make up courses, the end of the school year is over the summer. Unless that's some rule I've missed, I think it's probably any date before Labor Day. 

The school calendar seems to be a pretty good source for when the school year ends.  

6 hours ago, fred8033 said:

"came to us in December 2022".  So then, the boy effectively finishes six month requirements sometime in May.    Arrived with you Dec 15th means six months on May 15th.  

IMHO, I would not be overly legalistic with this AOL requirement as the scout won't gain anything with those last few weeks after the rest of the AOL den moves on.  Sometimes I do apply the common sense rule "what does it serve?"  In this case, there will not be any gain.  In fact, the scout could then be out-of-sync with the rest of the scouts that cross over. ... Sometimes you have to be flexible to avoid having the parent damage the scout's journey.

By "came to us in December" I mean the dad sent us an email.  They didn't show up until last weekend.  They just turned in the application.  By June, we are in our summer mode, which means no real meetings because everyone is on vacation for the summer.  As long as the parents understand that there will not be a crossover ceremony, it's probably ok.  I just can't see why you wouldn't want to hang out with Scouts your own age, rather than with a group where the oldest is in 3rd grade.  

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InquisitiveScouter Senior Member

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You will not find a clear cut answer to the question.  And the question is really, "When does the Cub Scout program end?"

Here are various answers you could find supporting arguments for in the literature:

A.  11 Years old.  The reasoning is this:  There are three criteria for joining Scouts (you must meet one to join): " 1)  ...at least 10 years old, currently in the fifth grade and register on or after March 1st:  2) OR have earned the Arrow of Light Award and are at least 10 years old,  3) OR are age 11 but have not reached age 18."   Although the criteria do not specifically say it, you could interpret the intent that 11 year olds (who were never in Cubs) get vectored to Scouts.    https://www.scouting.org/about/faq/question1/   

Couple with that the verbiage from Guide to Advancement 4.1.1.0, "In situations like those found in home-schooling or nontraditional education, where youth are working at grade levels that may not correspond to their ages, Cub Scouts should work on the rank that relates to their age, rather than their grade. When doing so, take the joining requirements for Scouts BSA into consideration to avoid completing the Arrow of Light too long before meeting the minimum age requirement for Scouts BSA. Cub Scouts do not “go back” and work on ranks designed for earlier grade levels, even if missed due to their time of joining. Likewise, Cub Scouts do not “move ahead” to work on the next rank until the completion of the current school year (or until their next birthday if they are transitioning by age), with the exception of those who earned the Webelos rank in the fourth grade." https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf  

B.  February-ish.  Chart from BSA site at https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/CubScoutMeetingGuide/PDF/Appendix/511-807.pdf  says "Fifth-grade Webelos Scouts graduate in February and begin meeting with a Troop in March."

C.  01 June.  Same chart above shows the program year beginning in June. So you could make the argument to extend to that...

D.  Cubs Scouts ends a the end of fifth grade.  See chart at https://pdscouting.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Required-Adventures-Chart-for-Ranks.pdf  Program upper limit is fifth grade.  this also aligns with criteria above.  Also aligns with Scout joining criteria in A.

C.  31 August.  One chart, still available from BSA at https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/26-004.pdf  shows the Cub program year beginning on 01 September.  Probably the weakest argument...

The saddest issue here is "I have a parent who really wants his son to earn the AOL."  Too much to unpack here...

The heart of the requirements issue is how to meet the requirement for participation:  "1. Be an active member of your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old."    If the Webelos den does not exist after crossover, with whom will the young man participate??  He could accomplish this (I suppose) in a few ways:  1.  Council allows him to register as Lone Cub Scout, and parent handles it all... 2.  Parent registers as a WDL, and handles it all (because parents cannot sign off requirements for AOL), including perhaps taking him to one last year of Webelos resident camp with another unit, and then the Scout fleets up to BSA after six months is done. 3. Have him work on his own requirements while hanging with the rising AOL den until complete.

 

 

 

 

 

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Armymutt Senior Member

Armymutt

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5 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Agree.  It's nice to have the patch on the scout shirt, but it just doesn't matter.  

That's my thought too.  I have a hard time buying into the level of commitment for getting the patch when no action was taken for over a year and a half.  There are lots of packs around.  The dad is an Eagle Scout.  Grandpa was a CM and SM.  I get the legacy thing, but given that the AOL really isn't much more than spending 6 months in Cub Scouts and getting 5 pins, I can't see it being worth holding a kid back from being in a troop and getting ready for summer camp.

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