Election Help

[Casper72]

We have an issue in our troop. Elections were held and text in votes were agreed to count as not everyone could be there. Well one person got 4 votes and the other got three by time meeting was dismissed. But sjortly after another vote came in to make it a tie. The onw in the lead has held the spl position 4 times in a row already. I say since thwy agreed to allow for text in voting without a time limit it counts. Personally, i think others need a chance to be spl. To add to the drama parents have gotten into it and both back their child. Please help!!! Yes i know no text voting. I am the COR and did not know about this til after it happened. I believe the church would also want others to have a chance also.

[nolesrule]

In my opinion if the absentee ballot is delivered after the votes have been counted and the winner was declared, then the vote doesn't count. It wasn't timely and you can't hold the election results open indefinitely.

But it's not my opinion that matters. We should be guiding the scouts to make the decision and certainly parents should not be involved. The PLC could do anything between accepting the original results to declaring a new election and specifying more stringent rules for timely absentee ballots.

As for the SPL being a multiple repeat, that 's a program decision that should have been made prior to candidates declaring themselves, and i would suggest it's too late to make that decision for this election cycle. As the COR, you could make a rule, but it would be best to have a discussion with the scoutmaster about this going forward in order to guide the PLC, rather than making it be adults making all the decisions.

[Casper72]

Thank you

[qwazse]

A CoR really needs to stay above this very good learning experience for your scouts. One of them may be on the community’s elections board in a few years!

FWIW, a club I was in settled ties with an arm wrestling match.

[InquisitiveScouter]

To be clear... how many Scouts are in the unit?

I am wanting to assume from the OP that there are 8 Scouts, which begs the question of why you have an SPL position.

As for the issue at hand, get the Scouts together, define the problem, and guide them through working it out.

And this is not a COR issue.... this is an SM issue.   Unless the SM is recusing because one of the Scouts is his son?  Even if that is so, I'd say the next stuckee is an ASM (do you have one?)

More information, please...

Edited January 13, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[qwazse]

@InquisitiveScouter, I once commented on discussions.scouting,org (back when they let us actually talk about administration and not just scoutbook) that an SPL in a small troop is superfluous. Boy, did I get raked! I couldn’t have drawn more fire if I spouted off about politics or religion.

So, just accept that it is not so much a PoR as it is a cult for a small troop.

[InquisitiveScouter]

52 minutes ago, qwazse said:

@InquisitiveScouter, I once commented on discussions.scouting,org (back when they let us actually talk about administration and not just scoutbook) that an SPL in a small troop is superfluous. Boy, did I get raked! I couldn’t have drawn more fire if I spouted off about politics or religion.

So, just accept that it is not so much a PoR as it is a cult for a small troop.

Concur.  And your thoughts on COR guiding this, versus SM?

[nolesrule]

@qwazseI won't rake you,  but we tried it both ways in a one patrol troop and found that the split of responsibilities that align with the position description work better than putting it all on a Patrol Leader. It also made the transition to having two patrols easier.

[mrjohns2]

We just had one patrol with one Scout who was the SPL. They were in effect the PL as well. At council and district events, they always ask for the SPL. When we got night enough for 2 patrols we moved to the standard 2 PLs and an SPL. 

[Casper72]

I dont know why people think they have to critique everything about other people. Its one reason why I really did not want to post this here. But to answer some questions yes the troop is not super big. It has 10 scouts. I dont know why you shouldn't have a SPL with 10 scouts. they need to learn how to lead people . Also I also know this should be more of a SM issue but the SM came to me about how to handle it and I am not going to just not help. If I took someones reply out of context then I apologize.  I just do not understand what the big deal is of having a SPL for 10 scouts. Maybe I am just naive.  But anyways we have the situation figured out and put rules into place for the future so these kinds of  things do not happen again. Than you for your replies. 

[mrjohns2]

13 hours ago, Casper72 said:

I just do not understand what the big deal is of having a SPL for 10 scouts.

Do you have a PL too? I would not have a PL too since that would be odd. I would do a SPL/PL and ASPL/APL. 

[qwazse]

@Casper72 thanks for the additional context.

As you can tell, we are divided as to the leadership needed for a small troop. Everyone agrees that an SPL is essential for coordinating three patrols. A troop that down to eight scouts only needs one youth leader and an assistant, and it doesn't make much difference if that pair is SPL/PL or PL/APL. Naturally, among 8 people there will usually only arise one or two leaders. What that means, is that as a troop size decreases, SPL is a less essential position, and any discussion over how elections for such a position are run become superfluous.

But, assume that you know the culture of your scouts and the district in which your troop operates, and that you see that there are tasks that will get done if you have an SPL that just won't happen if you don't have a scout wearing that patch. You also mentioned in your original post that others need a chance to be SPL. That makes no sense. The scout uniquely suited to perform those tasks needs to be SPL. If most scouts think the boy who's been doing those tasks has been doing them well, then it's their obligation to vote to retain him. If they think that another boy as developed leadership enough to do those well, then they install that new scout.

The truth about a small troop is that, for it to function at all, every scout has to step up and fulfill a position of responsibility or knock out an SM assigned service project. So you might indeed have several scouts who have developed their leadership skills enough to do the job. That's probably why your scouts' votes are evenly split. It's a good thing. However, we are in a weird space with these post-modern nomadic generations, where some overcome barriers to be physically present and others do not. Nobody relishes the thought of votes going uncounted. (You don't need to look further than more than a half dozen countries' evening news to know that.) But, nobody likes their decision being tied up waiting for a vote to come in from someone who is both physically and temporally absent.

 As others have said, your SM should have final say. But, since he asked you, you are right in wanting to be of some support. So, if you are going to advise, here's my suggestions, considering your role as COR:

• Your decision should not be based on the outcome. It shouldn't matter if the position changes hands or remains in the control of the same scout.
• Your decision should consider that for your troop size, this isn't a really pressing matter.
• You will have to insist to parents that they need to step back and enjoy a warm beverage in a corner somewhere.
• You should think about what's important to your church when it conducts business: timeliness or comprehensiveness?
• A fun idea for a tie breakers are always welcome.
• Does the church have a project or two that could benefit from a dedicated scout -- not necessarily an Eagle project, but something that a scout who's not an SPL can lean into and rally a few other scouts around?

I hope this helps. The truth is, there's no pat answer. But the goal is to have the scouts own the life of their troop as much as safety will allow.

Edited January 16, 2023 by qwazse