Requesting advice on how to handle this situation

[mrjohns2]

20 minutes ago, malraux said:

FWIW, the Cub Leader Guide and leader trainings do not grant the right of voting to members of the pack committee. The different committee roles are about accomplishing various activities. The only voting described is for the events on the annual calendar.

Does the training say they aren’t voting members explicitly?

[malraux]

Just now, mrjohns2 said:

Does the training say they aren’t voting members explicitly?

As per the trainings and leader guide, there is no such thing as a voting member. Its not a concept ever mentioned.

[fred8033]

Rules?  Procedures?  Who can vote?  ... This is cub scouts.  It's about asking parents to spend time with their kids outside and being active.  Leaders change all the time.  The written rule is good guidance, but there is a lot to be said for finding a way to get everyone to work well together.  

[InquisitiveScouter]

22 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Rules?  Procedures?  Who can vote?  ... This is cub scouts.  It's about asking parents to spend time with their kids outside and being active.  Leaders change all the time.  The written rule is good guidance, but there is a lot to be said for finding a way to get everyone to work well together.  

So you'll Zelle him the money, then?

[mrjohns2]

2 hours ago, malraux said:

As per the trainings and leader guide, there is no such thing as a voting member. Its not a concept ever mentioned.

Ah, ok. I agree. I miss-read your other post. I agree. We run our committees by consensus. To quote the late Ask Andy “Unit Committees are not deliberative bodies”.  

[scoutldr]

This was covered when I was teaching Cub Scout Basic Leader Training.  There are positions for "Committee Chairman" and "Member of COmmittee".  That does not include the CM, DL and ADL positions.  Stay in your lanes.

 

[mrjohns2]

1 hour ago, scoutldr said:

This was covered when I was teaching Cub Scout Basic Leader Training. 

That has changed since then. The pack committee includes the CM and DLs. 

Edited January 10, 2023 by mrjohns2

[malraux]

1 hour ago, scoutldr said:

This was covered when I was teaching Cub Scout Basic Leader Training.  There are positions for "Committee Chairman" and "Member of COmmittee".  That does not include the CM, DL and ADL positions.  Stay in your lanes.

 

See the current Cub Scout job specific training document linked and quoted above. 

[Eagle1993]

When I took over for my pack several years ago it had a negative balance.  I had to loan the pack $1500 to pay for room reservations, etc. that were due before we were able to collect annual dues and complete the popcorn fundraiser.  Running negative or close to negative is a bad situation.

I fully agree, stick to the budget.  Cash flow per year should be 0 (assuming you depreciate your equipment to ensure that can be maintained).  

$35 per scout seems a bit high and a nice to have.  We purchased a real arrow for each scout and wrote their name & date on the arrow (someone with good hand writing).  The cost was on the order of $3-5 each and the kids loved them.   

[Armymutt]

@InquisitiveScouter I wrote the budget based on discussions we had had previously in the Pack.  There was no published budget prior to my arrival - at least nothing in the archives.  Our budget is really more of a factoring of what we need to spend to buy advancement items, cover adult registrations, cover the unit recharter fee, PWD cars, and a bit for decorations.  That gets divided between the current Scouts and everyone pays.  No one else was writing it, so I did all the calculations necessary and wrote it.  Everyone had ample opportunity to review it and provide feedback.  

As far as amending it, that seems out of the question.  It would then require going back to all the parents and saying, "I know we said you'd only have to pay this much for your Scout to participate, but now you have to pay this much more."  Not a pack builder.  We could add it in next year, but it will still increase dues for no value added to the bulk of the Scouts.  The AOL crossover isn't a surprise.  The parents have had plenty of time to plan and resource this event.  My son hits Webelos in May and I'm already planning the plaques and ceremony, as well as a gift for the DL.  I'll then shop this to the parents and we'll work it into the fundraising target for each Scout.  

The funny thing is that they wanted to execute this event in Dec, yet they aren't even prepared in January.  Frustrating.   

[curious_scouter]

Late to the party but plaques and gifts for AOLs in my unit was always covered by the parents.  Some parent groups wanted to drop hundreds on mega trophies, my group bought arrows and learned how to crest arrows so we could keep cost down and give something hand-made.  For "decorations" our crossovers are always outdoors and if there's any "decorating" it's done by the Troop and usually is some form of lashed together furniture/bridges from our already-owned ropes and poles inventory.  Not much to spend on for decorating and doing it outside with a campfire makes it night IMO.

Our Pack used to provide the neckerchiefs and buy pinewood kits for all the Scouts for Christmas.  Since the AOLs did not do pinewood and already had their necker, they would get a mess kit or fork/knife/spoon kit instead as something they can use in Scouts.  The Pack I was in also offered to reimbursed families for the scout handbook if their scout was still active in the troop at the next recharter.  I thought that was nice, but don't think it's needed.

Our Troop covers the neckerchief, green epaulets, and green numbers for all incoming AOLs. 

But, these are all well known, long-established, agreed on, budgeted items. 

[IndyDad]

When my son crossed over with his AOL den, the Den Leader sent an example of a plaque that the parents could consider getting (on their own), but the Pack itself did not pay for this. The Den Leader was nice enough to provide out of personalized arrows for each scout (he purchased arrows and then personalized with colored stripes that lined up with the badges they completed throughout their cub scouting career). With the info, I purchased an arrow holder plaque on etsy on my own.

Given the extra cost for such a plaque and not budgeting ahead of time, I would strongly disagree with the parent that the Pack has to cover this. You can suggest to the AOL parents that they can get plaques on their own if they wish (fyi, I would NOT suggest parents present the plaques at Crossover, as not all scouts would have such a plaque and might feel left out).

[BetterWithCheddar]

On 1/8/2023 at 10:04 AM, Eagle94-A1 said:

One pack I was with had a guy with a woodshop, and he made AOL shaped plaques. Arrows were purchased and made by the OA chapter. Only thing they paid for was the arrows, as that was an OA fundraiser they knew in advance and budgeted for. I think it was $10/arrow and painted to show achievements.

I have a somewhat cynical view of the OA, but this is a perfect service they can perform to help convert Cubs to Scouts BSA.

OP, have you considered reaching out to the Scout Troop your Cubs will be joining? Perhaps, they'd be willing to cover the recognition costs? My Cub Scout Pack has an OK relationship with a few local Scout Troops, but they seem to be more responsive when there are bodies on the line. 🙂