Hello! New here and looking for ideas

[Leehoden]

Hello, I am new here but have been involved in scouting for around 10 years in a very rural area where the next closest Troop is around 100 miles away. We only have contact with other troops during summer camps. I have been the advancement coordinator/committee member for the last 8 years for our Troop.  I have been looking for a place where I can get ideas about how different Troops run, what troops have found effective, etc. We recently lost a lot of scouts because they didn't think we were doing enough fun things. We have a large number of Life Scouts (because as a troop we were focused). However, those scouts are now feeling like to much emphasis is placed on younger scouts ranking up and not enough on them. I am wondering how other Troops find a happy medium. We meet once a week for an hour and we do outdoor activities monthly. Any input is welcome! Thanks!

[MattR]

Welcome to the forum, @Leehoden

[qwazse]

@Leehoden, welcome to the forums!

Not to sound too judgmental, but many of us have acquired adult-to-youth translators. Adult “as a troop we were focused” often translates into youth “this is really boring.”

Once most of your boys have achieved 1st class rank, it’s time to stop focusing on advancement and focus on super activities (what others here may call fun and adventure). So, some probing questions:

What game do the boys play before, during, or after meetings?

When was your last really muddy service project?

Which patrol recently was awarded a totem for best camp gadget, best meal, best campfire song?

When was the last SM conference on a trail, overlooking a canyon, at sunset, while the boys were off to fetch water?

[SSScout]

The rank up (whata term) should be almost automatic, rather than "programmed " in...

Boring?  Games are fine but the tree ID should happen along the hiking trail. The pioneering/knots and ropes should happen setting up camp.  Leadership?  Older examples the younger.  Skills?  Yeah. make 'em games.  Map and compass?  Find your way around thepark.    I really learned about campasses from an old time surveyor. The Troop set up a 100 foot rope marked off in 10 foot sections (A, B, C, etc.)The Scout started at any spot ,followed the directions on the card he chose (110 feet at 75 degrees N, then  210 feet at 130 degrees.... ) until he/she came back to the baseline.  If starting at B, calculated end up C, like that....  Lots of "adventures" can be created in like fashion.  

Boring?  The sit down and listen Troop meetings are the anathema to Scouting.   I am truly sorry Signaling was eliminated from First Class, Wigwag, semaphore, Morse Code can be a challenge worthy of the Scout.  

Boring?  When was the last time you had a EMS crew come and teach CPR?   State Forester meet your Troop ona Saturday morn ?  Junior College Astronomy prof come out to point at Polaris and the Drinking Gourd? 

[DuctTape]

In most cases it seems to always boil down to programming at the troop level, vs programming at the patrol level.

Example:

Troop decides to do district camporee and half the patrols/scouts do not attend because they have done that camporee multiple times.

vs

Patrols decide individually their campout some choose the camporee some do a different campout.

Some argue that there aren't enough adults to do separate patrol activities. This could be true, but unless the troop is using a bus or multiple 15 passenger vans, they will need 1 adult to drive (at most) 4-5 scouts which means 2 adults automatically per patrol just as drivers. There is your 2-deep.

[InquisitiveScouter]

8 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

In most cases it seems to always boil down to programming at the troop level, vs programming at the patrol level.

Example:

Troop decides to do district camporee and half the patrols/scouts do not attend because they have done that camporee multiple times.

vs

Patrols decide individually their campout some choose the camporee some do a different campout.

Some argue that there aren't enough adults to do separate patrol activities. This could be true, but unless the troop is using a bus or multiple 15 passenger vans, they will need 1 adult to drive (at most) 4-5 scouts which means 2 adults automatically per patrol just as drivers. There is your 2-deep.

We have to do a mix of both...  Four months out of the year, our PLC designates that month's outing as "Patrol", versus the rest where they do things together as a Troop.  Even on the Patrol-determined outings, sometimes we have to get two Patrols to go somewhere together due to lack of adults to cover all outings.  (We currently have six Patrols and will gain a seventh next month with Crossovers.)) 

Our guys typically do not choose to go to District or Council events.  They view them as "lame," and several Scouts on the PLC have said, for the competitive events, they are just tired of winning... LOL

There's not much ADVENTURE in our District or Council events, so they choose to go far afield for overnight events.

[MattR]

On 1/4/2023 at 10:39 AM, Leehoden said:

However, those scouts are now feeling like to much emphasis is placed on younger scouts ranking up and not enough on them. I am wondering how other Troops find a happy medium.

There's a lot here to think about.

"scouts are now feeling like to much emphasis is placed on younger scouts" Do the older scouts make the program or the adults? If the older scouts are really owning the responsibility for the troop then they're the ones that should be grappling with this problem.

"ranking up and not enough on them" As others have said, the emphasis should be on fun that just happens to cover the skills needed. That, and a bit more time to sign stuff off and advancement is taken care of.

"find a happy medium" If it's a zero sum game then there will always be losers. The challenge is to figure out how to encourage the older scouts to own and enjoy the responsibility for both themselves and the younger scouts. Of course they get bored teaching knots to sign off scouts. Adults do as well. What scouts have that adults don't is a keen sense of playing. Take advantage of that. Show them how to make it a game. That and some great high adventure trips and everyone will have fun. It's when the older scouts are looking out for the younger scouts and the younger scouts are looking up to the older scouts that you've hit the sweet spot. It's never perfect but it can be much more fun than "advancement" meetings. As long as the older scouts are having fun with friends they will stick around.

[Leehoden]

This is why I wanted to find a forum, your candidness and information is wonderful. I didn't see it but you are right we are not doing enough games. We are letting the scouts lead but to be honest we went through a couple scoutmasters that took over everything. We are trying to get back to scout lead but I think we lost a lot in that time. The scouts never plan games or anything. Maybe we need to come up with some ideas and provide it to them. Are there any games out there that teach how to follow through on leadership positions or who the report to (PL, ASPL, SPL) etc to kind of begin with the basics? I will try searching other games as well. Any other ideas would be welcome, judgmental or not. We realize we need to make changes, we just have struggled with adult leadership and support from our council because we are so far away, and very few of our leaders were previously scouts. Thank you! 

[Leehoden]

10 hours ago, qwazse said:

@Leehoden, welcome to the forums!

Not to sound too judgmental, but many of us have acquired adult-to-youth translators. Adult “as a troop we were focused” often translates into youth “this is really boring.”

Once most of your boys have achieved 1st class rank, it’s time to stop focusing on advancement and focus on super activities (what others here may call fun and adventure). So, some probing questions:

What game do the boys play before, during, or after meetings?

When was your last really muddy service project?

Which patrol recently was awarded a totem for best camp gadget, best meal, best campfire song?

When was the last SM conference on a trail, overlooking a canyon, at sunset, while the boys were off to fetch water?

You are right. We probably are not doing enough activities. I think we need to provide a list of activities to the leaders and see if they will plan that into the meeting. It would also be a fun and valuable refresher for the older scouts. So do you usually build in time for the scouts to fill out the books towards the end of the meeting? 

[qwazse]

12 hours ago, Leehoden said:

…. Are there any games out there that teach how to follow through on leadership positions or who the report to (PL, ASPL, SPL) etc to kind of begin with the basics? …

Yeah. Hide ice cream at a location within a half-day hike. Place the coordinates to that location someplace else. Provide a map with the location of the coordinates. First patrol to navigate to the ice cream gets their choice of flavor.

Search “wide games” there will be plenty.

but, for meetings we do games like a round of basketball, sleeping Indian, or other 15 minute game chosen by the SPL.

11 hours ago, Leehoden said:

…. So do you usually build in time for the scouts to fill out the books towards the end of the meeting? 

Books? What are these books you speak of? 
Scouts master skills, demonstrate them to their PL or SPL, who then signs off. We don’t reserve a specific time for it.

Our general structure in 15 minute blocks in no particular order:

• opening/announcements
• patrol break-out
• game
• guest speaker or skill instruction
• Closing/clean up

During the game period scouts may ask for a conference, have a board of review, or log their progress with the advancement adult.

[Leehoden]

44 minutes ago, qwazse said:

 

Books? What are these books you speak of? 
Scouts master skills, demonstrate them to their PL or SPL, who then signs off. We don’t reserve a specific time for it.

 

Sorry should have typed Scoutbook's. We noticed that that wasn't being done. The boys would focus on a skill then not sign off in the Scoutbooks. 

[DuctTape]

3 hours ago, Leehoden said:

Sorry should have typed Scoutbook's. We noticed that that wasn't being done. The boys would focus on a skill then not sign off in the Scoutbooks. 

The next step of the process is the scout being tested. They would go to their SM (or whomever the SM has granted authority. I prefer the PL) to be tested on the skill they practiced. The sign-off occurs when the scout successfully passes the test. The sign-off is NOT from the practice or the skill building activity, it is a personal test. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

2 hours ago, DuctTape said:

The next step of the process is the scout being tested. They would go to their SM (or whomever the SM has granted authority. I prefer the PL) to be tested on the skill they practiced. The sign-off occurs when the scout successfully passes the test. The sign-off is NOT from the practice or the skill building activity, it is a personal test. 

Concur!!

From the Scout Handbook (page 416):

"Once you feel that you have MASTERED [emphasis mine] a skill, a leader tests you and passes you on the requirement.  This could be a youth leader, or an adult leader, or a merit badge counselor. (This won't be your parent unless your parent is also a troop leader or merit badge counselor.)"

This is the written rebuttal to the "one and done" mentality.  I have had to show this to Scouts on a few occasions.  The written word has great authority 😜

Good luck!

 

 

[yknot]

Don't be afraid to reach out outside of scouting if your scouts are bored and you don't have a lot of scouting resources nearby.  County parks department naturalists, state wildlife biologists, local universities, Audubon state or local chapters, watersheds, hiking clubs, outdoors groups like Trout Unlimited and Ducks Unlimited. They are great resources to help adult leaders become more educated and more interesting, and they also can come liven up a troop meeting by sharing some knowledge or meeting up with scouts to give a demo somewhere. Through Audubon, I got a national expert to meet up with us with us at a hawk watch. He exploded the Miss Drysdale stereotype with his cowboy boots and laconic raptor tales. My son and I just went on a hike through one of the last stands of primordial forest in our state. It was on a university ecological and research preserve, and it was led by a PhD student. He made leafless trees fascinating to everyone there, including my usually too cool for school teenager.