Water storage / supply?

[curious_scouter]

We have a largeish troop and are in a hot area.  This adds up to needing quite a bit of water on outings.  I don't know a good "formula" but I think the conventional wisdom is 2 gallons per scout per outing for drinking and I would venture 5 gallons per patrol for cleanup.  Give or take.

We do like to go some places without a water supply.  So this means carting in water.  For a large outing we'll have 30-40 souls in 3-5 patrols.  Which by my previous math means we need to cart in over 100 gallons of water OR be prepared to filter.  Or a little of each.

One approach we've used for a long time is that on those outings each Scout brings 2 gallons (usually two 1-gallon jugs) and then each patrol has 1 igloo 5 gallon drink thing full for water bottle refill and cooking + a 5 gallon bucket with a lid for KP water.  This seems to work but with 30-40 souls generates 60-80 empty plastic containers.  They carry out what they carry in, but man... its a LOT of waste per outing.

So... this may be one of those "non problems" because what we do works.  But I'm curious to know what others do. 

[KublaiKen]

A surplus water buffalo? When I was a kid someone had one in our District and brought it to Camporees.

[mrjohns2]

We would never use disposable containers. Just jerry cans. Seems like you need to up the number of 5 gallon buckets? We have used many 3-4 gallon jerry cans.

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, curious_scouter said:

One approach we've used for a long time is that on those outings each Scout brings 2 gallons (usually two 1-gallon jugs) and then each patrol has 1 igloo 5 gallon drink thing full for water bottle refill and cooking + a 5 gallon bucket with a lid for KP water.  This seems to work but with 30-40 souls generates 60-80 empty plastic containers.  They carry out what they carry in, but man... its a LOT of waste per outing.

You say this method works for you, with the real drawback being waste.  You can procure one gallon water jugs with screw on lids.... reusable = no/less waste

[cgail]

https://relianceoutdoors.com/products/aqua-tainer-4g-15l

[yknot]

I've had to get water to events that have needed a lot and have used portable plastic stock tanks. They are an investment but if you do this all the time it might be worth it. They fit in the back of a pickup. I have also used plastic 55 gal drums with lids that are not too bad $. You'd still want some personal drinking water but this is the way to get a lot of gallonage for washing, cooking, watering stock. People whose wells fail or need to truck in household water also use these. There were a lot of stories in the news this year of people doing this in the southwest. You might be able to get some used. 

[Eagle94-A1]

22 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

You say this method works for you, with the real drawback being waste.  You can procure one gallon water jugs with screw on lids.... reusable = no/less waste

Yes, there are many brands of water and/or flavored beverages, that have screw on lid. wash and reuse.

[DuctTape]

If there is a water source, I advocate for filtering. Only carry water for dry camps.

[InquisitiveScouter]

11 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

If there is a water source, I advocate for filtering. Only carry water for dry camps.

Be mindful that filtering is not effective against viruses.  Here is a great table showing different treatment methods and what they will do for you...

https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/pdf/drinking/Backcountry_Water_Treatment-508.pdf

Everyone should be vaccinated against Hep A. 

Incubation for norovirus is 12 - 48 hours.  https://www.cdc.gov/hai/pdfs/norovirus/229110-anorocasefactsheet508.pdf

Incubation period for enteroviruses is usually 3 - 5 days.  https://www.cdc.gov/non-polio-enterovirus/about/ev-d68.html

Incubation for rotavirus is about 2 days.  https://www.cdc.gov/rotavirus/clinical.html

And there's a lot more virus-bugs out there...

The larger your group, and the longer you are out, the greater the risk you take with just filtering water.

Note that boiling is best.

If you are going to filter (small quantities for drinking) then chemically treat it, too.  Best to do this just before bedtime, as chemicals take about four hours to be effective.

Some pro tips:

1.  If you are cooking hot meals, boil a little extra water that you can leave to cool off for drinking.  NEVER pour out water you have boiled.  It is a waste of fuel.

2.  Never boil water you have taken the time and effort to filter/treat.  Again, waste of fuel.

3.  On cold weather camping trips, boil water and put in Nalgene-type bottles  (wide mouth!!!).  Put these in your sleeping bag for a comfy night's rest.  In the morning, you will have liquid (not frozen) potable water.

4.  Plan meals with a mind on water usage and cleanup.  Spaghetti = bad (huge waste of water). 

5.  Always lick your dishes clean, or wipe with a good hunk of bread.  In our Troop we say, "Clean your dishes before you wash your dishes!"

6.  Going lightweight with dehydrated meals?  After eating, clean your dishes (see above), but do not wash them... yet.  As you boil water for the next meal, sterilize your dishes in the boiling water you will be using to hydrate your meals.  (I know this idea will probably be poo-pooed, but you have to overcome your psychological barriers and look at the practicality behind it...)

[DuctTape]

I was trying to be brief without getting into all the technical aspects of filtering, purifying, etc... 

[MikeS72]

4 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Be mindful that filtering is not effective against viruses.  Here is a great table showing different treatment methods and what they will do for you...

https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/pdf/drinking/Backcountry_Water_Treatment-508.pdf

Everyone should be vaccinated against Hep A. 

Incubation for norovirus is 12 - 48 hours.  https://www.cdc.gov/hai/pdfs/norovirus/229110-anorocasefactsheet508.pdf

Incubation period for enteroviruses is usually 3 - 5 days.  https://www.cdc.gov/non-polio-enterovirus/about/ev-d68.html

Incubation for rotavirus is about 2 days.  https://www.cdc.gov/rotavirus/clinical.html

And there's a lot more virus-bugs out there...

The larger your group, and the longer you are out, the greater the risk you take with just filtering water.

Note that boiling is best.

If you are going to filter (small quantities for drinking) then chemically treat it, too.  Best to do this just before bedtime, as chemicals take about four hours to be effective.

Some pro tips:

1.  If you are cooking hot meals, boil a little extra water that you can leave to cool off for drinking.  NEVER pour out water you have boiled.  It is a waste of fuel.

2.  Never boil water you have taken the time and effort to filter/treat.  Again, waste of fuel.

3.  On cold weather camping trips, boil water and put in Nalgene-type bottles  (wide mouth!!!).  Put these in your sleeping bag for a comfy night's rest.  In the morning, you will have liquid (not frozen) potable water.

4.  Plan meals with a mind on water usage and cleanup.  Spaghetti = bad (huge waste of water). 

5.  Always lick your dishes clean, or wipe with a good hunk of bread.  In our Troop we say, "Clean your dishes before you wash your dishes!"

6.  Going lightweight with dehydrated meals?  After eating, clean your dishes (see above), but do not wash them... yet.  As you boil water for the next meal, sterilize your dishes in the boiling water you will be using to hydrate your meals.  (I know this idea will probably be poo-pooed, but you have to overcome your psychological barriers and look at the practicality behind it...)

I both filter with a higher end Katyden, then hit it with UV light via a SteriPen.  The filter does a great job with the way the water tastes coming out of some of our FL waterways, and the SteriPen finishes off those nasties.

[MattR]

On 12/18/2022 at 9:44 AM, KublaiKen said:

A surplus water buffalo? When I was a kid someone had one in our District and brought it to Camporees.

Back when we had 70 scouts we had a big water buffalo that we mounted to a flatbed trailer. I think it was at least 100 gallons.

We have to bring all of our water to most campouts. It's a lot more efficient for us to bring a bunch of 7 gal. water jugs (The scouts bring a full water bottle) than have each scout bring 2 gallons. The water is being brought to camp either way.

If it’s a long term camp they have water and we just bring the empty jugs. If we're backpacking then scouts bring 2 or 3 quart sized bottles or a waterbag like a camelback.

[curious_scouter]

Thanks all, good ideas and options to consider. 

We're looking mainly at 55gallon plastic drums and 5 gallon buckets as options. 

Concern on the drums is safety.  Even if "emptied" ... they can't be dried like a bucket, we worry what would "cook" in them between use.  And it's hard to get inside them to REALLY clean them if something happens.  As shower water or source for KP water - maybe.

I think we're leaning towards 5 gallon buckets.  I think we can probably reach out to some food places (firehouse?) locally and score a deal on the quantity we need.  Google seems to say they are food safe.  They are manageable to carry with 1-2 Scouts.  They can be stacked full, they can be stacked upside down in a pyramid empty to dry.  Once dry, they nest so you can store a bunch in a "column" in the storage space.  They can be sent home ahead of an outing and brought along, similar to the "bring 2 gallons" idea but with reusable containers.  We can use them in other ways during the year (as cones for games for example).  We need one or two at the fire anyway so having them in 5 gallon buckets already supports that.  And while full with a lid on they make pretty good seats for around the fire.

I think I just talked myself into buckets...