Why do we need the Citizenship in Society merit badge?

[mrjohns2]

25 minutes ago, Tired_Eagle_Feathers said:

If you know, you know.  If you don't, you won't.

Dude, not helpful. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, Tired_Eagle_Feathers said:

If you know, you know.  If you don't, you won't.

I am working through this with a small group of Scouts now (9th graders).  When we are done, I am going to ask them what their opinion is on the badge, and whether this was value-added for them.  I'll let you know...

I will say, in our first session, they were very guarded in their views, but when they began to share their ideas and research on the definitions, and each relayed what they had heard from friends, parents, teachers, and media, and how they thought much of this was unneeded in a merit badge.  They came to some great consensus on what things "should mean"  (their words, and I loved 'em).  The most discussions centered around different ideas and examples of "identities," "equity," and "discrimination" and how they relate to Oath and Law.

  When they were relating the definitions to the Scout Oath and Law, one Scout even said something like (I'm paraphrasing), "it seems like a knee jerk reaction to have this badge to tell us about who we already are."

For their second and third sessions, I had challenged them to come up with different examples for requirement 2.  Here are the examples they came up with on their own and  researched:

- Truman and his decision to drop the bomb (wow)

- Washington and his decision to commit treason against the King of England (wow)

- Hoover and his orders against the Bonus Army (a negative example... wow)

- Lincoln and the moral dilemma/decisions he faced on slavery (wow)

- Warrant Officer Hugh Clowers Thompson, Jr. and his intervention in, and reporting of, the My Lai massacre (wow)

I had asked them not only to tell about the person and the decision, but to really dig into "...options that leader had, why you believe they chose their final course of action, and the outcome of that action"

After each Scout spoke, the others would ask questions about the person/decision , and many would look up the event and read a little about it (about 5-10 minutes) and share their thoughts (I did not require this... they asked to do it.)   

They generally agreed on a few things so far:

1)  It is easier to judge someone through the lens of history.  But it is important to place yourself in their shoes to genuinely get an understanding of the times, circumstances, and troubles they faced.  (Then we had a discussion about empathy for people living right now as they try to make ethical decisions, and understanding what set of values guide them...)

2)  This stuff ought to be in the other Citizenship badges. (Their words, not mine...)

3) Everyone in our community is not on the same sheet of music when talking about the definitions.  They mean different things to different people, and that causes confusion for them. (Their observations, not mine...)

4)  They feel are being told "what to think" on some of these things, and they appreciate exploring them together without judgement or "correction".  They appreciate being given the opportunity to research, discuss, talk, think, and find out "how to think" about these things, but that isn't directly addressed in the merit badge.

5)  It is OK to hold a different view on the decision someone made, based on your values (Scout Oath and Law).  For example, they were about evenly divided in their views on Truman and his decision to drop the bomb... 

Overall, I think what their initial dive into this badge shows is that our education system and our communities are not fostering critical thinking skills, rhetoric, debate, and ethics.  And that they are genuinely afraid of expressing or exploring different ideas because they get chastised for thoughtcrime (my word (well, Orwell's), not theirs) at school and, yes, at home.  I told them that is the value of free speech, to thoroughly test ideas, and to seek guidance and counseling from their parents if anything we discuss brings up further questions.

More to follow...

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter
Added #5

[TheGreenWizard]

On 12/15/2022 at 7:48 AM, fred8033 said:

This is a real question that we should discuss.  

If a kid joins scouting and is already in a swim team and is a skilled swimmer, does the "swimming" merit badge add value?  Perhaps scouts should be required to get 21 MBs to show "growth".  We can list "core" (such as swimming), but if the kid is already a good swimmer, they get a badge for effectively no work in scouting.  Perhaps swimming should be replaced with canoeing or hiking or ?????

The difference is the merit badge teaches water rescues a bit as well. Lifesaving goes more in depth, but Swimming still covers some. The badge isn't trying to make athletes, it's trying to make capable swimmers who can do what is necessary to save a life; it prepares the scout for the Lifesaving merit badge.

[fred8033]

2 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

... one Scout even said something like (I'm paraphrasing), "it seems like a knee jerk reaction to have this badge to tell us about who we already are."

...

2)  This stuff ought to be in the other Citizenship badges. (Their words, not mine...)

3) Everyone in our community is not on the same sheet of music when talking about the definitions.  They mean different things to different people, and that causes confusion for them. (Their observations, not mine...)

4)  They feel are being told "what to think" on some of these things, and they appreciate exploring them together without judgement or "correction".  ...

... our education system and our communities are not fostering critical thinking skills, rhetoric, debate, and ethics.  And that they are genuinely afraid of expressing or exploring different ideas because they get chastised for thoughtcrime (my word (well, Orwell's), not theirs) at school and, yes, at home. 

 

Very real comments.  

[nolesrule]

And you are going to get differing opinions on whether it can actually fit into the other Citizenship merit badges. I don't think it effectively can, as I think it works better as a single focused topic. But again, that's an opinion. On the other hand, I think Nation and World should be combined. And I think that you could incorporate outdoor food safety requirements into the cooking part of Camping merit badge and drop Cooking back to an elective. But again, that's my opinion.

I also don't think it's something that can be effective as part of the Scout Spirt requirement. The setting is different since the MB is a discussion among scouts sharing thoughts and opinions and you aren't going to get the same level of coverage across units as you would in a scout spirit conversation for rank as you would with the merit badge. 

And the fact it is a merit badge means it can't get skipped over by the people who think they know better and that having in depth discussions about applicability of the Oath and Law is a 4 letter word.

And for a data point, my daughter at her Eagle Board of Review 3 weeks ago stated it was her favorite merit badge of the 53 she had earned (I know because she told me afterwards... I was not in the room).

Edited February 21, 2023 by nolesrule

[Tired_Eagle_Feathers]

4 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

Dude, not helpful. 

The best way to help with this situation is become a merit badge counselor for this badge so you can make sure it gets taught properly.

[KublaiKen]

1 hour ago, Tired_Eagle_Feathers said:

The best way to help with this situation is become a merit badge counselor for this badge so you can make sure it gets taught properly.

Based on conversations I've had with Scouts and their parents, I don't see a "situation" or have any reason to believe it isn't being counseled (not taught) properly.

[fred8033]

18 hours ago, nolesrule said:

And the fact it is a merit badge means it can't get skipped over by the people who think they know better and that having in depth discussions about applicability of the Oath and Law is a 4 letter word.

Won't get skipped over by people who think they know better?  Any merit badge can be subverted easily.  I often think the Family Life MB where many of the requirements are often subverted.  

This badge is controversial.  Quality might be better now while we have strong focus, but over time it will be subverted because many simply believe the content is political.

 

18 hours ago, nolesrule said:

And for a data point, my daughter at her Eagle Board of Review 3 weeks ago stated it was her favorite merit badge of the 53 she had earned (I know because she told me afterwards... I was not in the room).

That's your scout.  Few scouts would ever list any Citizenship MB as a favorite.  

This may be only best judged in hindsight.   Twenty years from now ... after focus, intensity and politics reduce ... will this badge exist?  Was it effective?  Will it be quality? 

 

[Tired_Eagle_Feathers]

17 hours ago, KublaiKen said:

Based on conversations I've had with Scouts and their parents, I don't see a "situation" or have any reason to believe it isn't being counseled (not taught) properly.

Based on the conversations I've had with Scouts, and listening in to others while they were taking the merit badge, there is a situation, and the kids know it.  In fact, given the often-cagey responses from the adults concerning the badge, they know it, too.  Most worrisome is that people are clearly afraid to talk about it openly.

Quote

many simply believe the content is political.

Because it is.  Not only that, it is, in my estimation, immoral.

The merit bade speaks to "equity" and "equality".  In the context of organizations with DEI efforts, these always, always end up being punitive in nature.  The left has done a fantastic job of co-opting and conflating these words.  Who could be against equity?  Who could be against equality?  But what is really meant by these terms in practice is enforced equality.  Inevitably.  And that always comes at someone's expense.

What most people used to have in mind when you talked about equality was equality of opportunity within one's means.  Making the most out of the cards life has dealt you.  But today, the left has redefined the terms to mean equality of outcomes and equality of opportunity regardless of means.

This is literally Marxism - "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."

So, if you don't achieve as well as someone else, well, we'll put the thumb on the scale so you appear to do as well as someone who did better.  Clearly you need the help, so we will take from others to give it to you.

Or they will go after equality of opportunity.  Not everyone starts out with the same means, so we'll take from those with the ability, and give to those who have needs.

This is inherently leftist political ideology being pushed in a merit badge.

I could go on with more, but again, if you know this, you know it, and if you don't, nothing I say is going to convince you.  You wont' ever get it because you agree with this stuff.

The best way to counter this stuff is to ask the scouts if at the end of summer camp the "equal" thing to do would be divvy up all the merit badges amongst all the scouts.  Or if everyone's service hours should get divvied up amongst all the scouts - even those who didn't do any service work.  Or if scouts who join late should just be given some ranks and merit badges so that they start off more "equal" with everyone else their age, without having worked for them.  They get the idea pretty quick.

I continue to be shocked and dismayed that this kind of thing has infiltrated the Boy Scouts of America of all places.  This is the absolute last place I thought this kind of thing would creep in.  It needs to be resisted.

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Tired_Eagle_Feathers

[Navybone]

18 hours ago, Tired_Eagle_Feathers said:

The best way to help with this situation is become a merit badge counselor for this badge so you can make sure it gets taught properly.

Not quite sure how to take your comment.   What do you mean taught properly?  

[InquisitiveScouter]

It was only a matter of time before the pot was stirred again 😛

BTW, slide 34:

15. How will you make sure that the merit badge is achieving its objectives? Like all BSA programs, we will continuously evaluate and improve the Citizenship in Society merit badge based on feedback shared by those within the Scouting program.

Anybody been asked for any feedback?  Anyone see an avenue mentioned in the slide show to provide feedback?

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/diversity_equity_and_inclusion/Citizenship-in-Society-Merit-Badge-Counselor-Guide-2021.pdf

P.S.  They don't care about your feedback...

Edited February 22, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[HashTagScouts]

That woke Boy Scouts of America with their "help other people at all times" and friendly and kind schtick. 😕

[nolesrule]

33 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

That woke Boy Scouts of America with their "help other people at all times" and friendly and kind schtick. 😕

The Oath and Law are just suggestions that we give lip service to.

[nolesrule]

2 hours ago, fred8033 said:

That's your scout.  Few scouts would ever list any Citizenship MB as a favorite.  
 

Yes, that's my scout. Who is also a minority gender in scouting as well as a minority religion. People who tend to be from a group that gets marginalized to any degree tend to discuss those challenges. As a female Jewish person in organization comprised mostly of white Christian males she wonders (and so do I) why people afraid of having conversations about differences?

What are they scared of?

[Tired_Eagle_Feathers]

The Scout Oath and Law are fantastic, and have been fantastic guidelines for decades.  They were good enough for decades, and they are good enough now.  I was having a discussion with one scout and he said something like, "Aren't we already including everybody?"  And I said, "Yes.  The Boy Scouts is one of the most inclusive organizations you will ever find.  The Scout Oath and Law pretty much guarantee it."

34 minutes ago, nolesrule said:

why people afraid of having conversations about differences?

I don't think anyone is afraid of having conversations about differences.  What people have a problem with is when the differences start being used as metrics for enforced equality of outcomes, or as a bludgeon to make one group feel like they owe another group something, or that others are required to participate in whatever makes them different.

Not all of the Society merit badge is terrible.  Talking about bullying, for example, is great.  Nobody should be made to feel excluded in Scouting for any reason (within reason).   Being an "upstander" to be a champion for people is great.  Talking about ethical leadership is also fantastic.  Making sure that all scouts are given an opportunity to provide input is great.

The stuff that skates off into "identity" is suspect, to me.  Too many people today want to "identify" as bizarro things that in the past would have people smiling and backing away whereas today people are expected to effectively be active participants.  Of course this is probably just more word co-opting.  There are many "identities" that of course are normal and fine and people should be ambivalent about them at worst.  As long as you keep it to yourself, most people aren't going to care about what religion or political alignment you identify as, for example.