Why do we need the Citizenship in Society merit badge?

[AltadenaCraig]

3 hours ago, Navybone said:

So, CIS, which focuses on developing an understanding of the people in the community, is less useful than learning how the community works for a common good?   Are the concepts of understanding diversity, equity, and inclusion not all part of how to strengthen a community, or even a nation?  How to include your ethics in decison making -Not useful? 

The four citizenship merit badges are all about the developing of our youth to be successful in their endeavors, to be leaders of this nation and the world.  

I worry we're running afoul fo B-P's admonition not to "trench the role of schools" with four(4) out of 21 merit badges emphasizing ... to use your words "concepts of understanding diversity, equity, etc".

IMHO we've not only muddled those civics concepts with our overkill we've foregone other, more important lessons for which Scouting is uniquely suited.  "Nature" MB, for example, used to be an Eagle Required MB - but no more - and I'm sure other Scouters could list even better examples.

[Navybone]

20 minutes ago, AltadenaCraig said:

I worry we're running afoul fo B-P's admonition not to "trench the role of schools" with four(4) out of 21 merit badges emphasizing ... to use your words "concepts of understanding diversity, equity, etc".

I would not say that schools cover everything in the citizenship merit badges.   

[Scouterlockport]

43 minutes ago, AltadenaCraig said:

I worry we're running afoul fo B-P's admonition not to "trench the role of schools" with four(4) out of 21 merit badges emphasizing ... to use your words "concepts of understanding diversity, equity, etc".

IMHO we've not only muddled those civics concepts with our overkill we've foregone other, more important lessons for which Scouting is uniquely suited.  "Nature" MB, for example, used to be an Eagle Required MB - but no more - and I'm sure other Scouters could list even better examples.

I agree that the nature section of scouting should have more eagle required badges. But to say there is none is not true. There is environmental science, which would cover that hole. I wish they would add a triple headed requirement for nature like (hiking/swimming/cycle)

[RememberSchiff]

10 hours ago, AltadenaCraig said:

I worry we're running afoul fo B-P's admonition not to "trench the role of schools" with four(4) out of 21 merit badges emphasizing ... to use your words "concepts of understanding diversity, equity, etc".

IMHO we've not only muddled those civics concepts with our overkill we've foregone other, more important lessons for which Scouting is uniquely suited.  "Nature" MB, for example, used to be an Eagle Required MB - but no more - and I'm sure other Scouters could list even better examples.

Back in my day, Eagle required Nature merit badge and a badge selected from the Conservation group: Soil Conservation, Wildlife Management, Forestry. Bird Study was once Eagle required.

I believe the program thought was to have an understanding of nature, threats to it (man, weather, insects), and conservation.  IMHO, Environmental Science is a smaller subset.

Civics was a year long 9th grade course back then and scouts selected 3 out the 4 Citizenship badges...easy schoolwork. Perhaps Scouts should petition for the restoration of Civics (and Physics ) in their school curriculum...now that would be a lesson in citizenship.

Another $0.02,

[skeptic]

I would suggest that Nature replaced Bird Study in that slot of natural interaction with "nature".  Today, that spot is taken by Environmental Science.  I also feel that during the forties and into the early sixties, when the "choose from groups" requirement was in place, that the breadth of subjects for merit badges was better served, leaving option, but also achieving some variability.  

[yknot]

11 hours ago, Navybone said:

I would not say that schools cover everything in the citizenship merit badges.   

It can vary across the country but in many states the badges are extremely redundant with a lot of the high school curriculum and are too homework like. The could easily be condensed into one. The core one is Nation. A couple things could be replaced with items from Community and World. Mapping out where a fire or police station for example seems silly for a troop age kid. It is more relevant for cubs and is already in that part of the program. At the very least, there ought to be some opt out options for information that is covered elsewhere.  

[DuctTape]

In our area students all take a course in HS called "Participation in Government".

[fred8033]

13 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

In our area students all take a course in HS called "Participation in Government".

22 minutes ago, yknot said:

At the very least, there ought to be some opt out options for information that is covered elsewhere.  

Absolutely agree.   How often do we argue about scouts double dipping on requirements?  Fulfilling two requirements with one activity.   Well, this is worse.  This is about scouts not adding value because it's already covered.  It's an eye roller for the scouts.  

[AltadenaCraig]

13 hours ago, Scouterlockport said:

I agree that the nature section of scouting should have more eagle required badges. But to say there is none is not true. There is environmental science, which would cover that hole. I wish they would add a triple headed requirement for nature like (hiking/swimming/cycle)

I didn't mean to suggest there's none, only that 'Nature' MB is no longer required for Eagle.

[SiouxRanger]

At the rate things are trending, we'll have:

Citizenship in the Solar System

Citizenship in the Galaxy

Citizenship in the Universe

Well, probably not in the Universe until ZIP codes are assigned.

I just have to agree with sentiments that Merit Badges are more and more academic.  Less and less experience.

Me, just a nobody, I can build a fire in a pouring rain. Period. And yeah, in a torrential rain.  I am a master at it.  OK, not a master, GENIUS.  I am really good at building fires.  Get lost in the Wilderness, get lost with me, if you are so lucky.  (And my 2 degrees from a land grant university will not save my life.) What will save my life (and yours) is what I learned in Scouting.

And that is how it is.

Experience. 

[SiouxRanger]

And I love the Robert Frost quote. Thanks so much.

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, SiouxRanger said:

At the rate things are trending, we'll have:

Citizenship in the Solar System

Citizenship in the Galaxy

Citizenship in the Universe

Well, probably not in the Universe until ZIP codes are assigned.

I just have to agree with sentiments that Merit Badges are more and more academic.  Less and less experience.

Me, just a nobody, I can build a fire in a pouring rain. Period. And yeah, in a torrential rain.  I am a master at it.  OK, not a master, GENIUS.  I am really good at building fires.  Get lost in the Wilderness, get lost with me, if you are so lucky.  (And my 2 degrees from a land grant university will not save my life.) What will save my life (and yours) is what I learned in Scouting.

And that is how it is.

Experience. 

Just make sure you remember my correct pronouns when we get lost together.

Your Majesty / His Majesty

[Scouterlockport]

1 hour ago, SiouxRanger said:

At the rate things are trending, we'll have:

Citizenship in the Solar System

Citizenship in the Galaxy

Citizenship in the Universe

Well, probably not in the Universe until ZIP codes are assigned.

I just have to agree with sentiments that Merit Badges are more and more academic.  Less and less experience.

Me, just a nobody, I can build a fire in a pouring rain. Period. And yeah, in a torrential rain.  I am a master at it.  OK, not a master, GENIUS.  I am really good at building fires.  Get lost in the Wilderness, get lost with me, if you are so lucky.  (And my 2 degrees from a land grant university will not save my life.) What will save my life (and yours) is what I learned in Scouting.

And that is how it is.

Experience. 

I dont disagree that experiences are important to the goals of the scouting movement,  but we are complaining about only 5/6 of the required merit badges 21 being book learning based. This  thread continues to feel like people are complaining about times for changing when that continues to happen for any organization.

Any one with kids understand we need to have scouts ready to learn/ survive in a more diverse environment with people from different backgrounds and opinions then there own. This isn't just race, it is even just economic or religious background. That is all the evil citizenship in society badges is trying to teach.

 

[qwazse]

At its core, scouting (boy or girl, young or old, sport or military) is: observe and report.

Part of the discourse over the determination of what’s required vs. what’s elective is a concern that we are replacing that core with memorize and recite. Doing so moves us off brand.

Edited December 15, 2022 by qwazse

[Navybone]

22 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Absolutely agree.   How often do we argue about scouts double dipping on requirements?  Fulfilling two requirements with one activity.   Well, this is worse.  This is about scouts not adding value because it's already covered.  It's an eye roller for the scouts.  

So do we do the same with Personal Fitness?  Kids have to take PE in school. How about swimming -  kids have to know how to swim in our school district.   If a scout takes a class like environmental science in school, should they go ahead and automatically earn merit badges that cover the same topic, Eagle required or not? 

There is no national standard for education.  Scout provides a leveling for those who participate, giving them a significant jump on being successful adults.    I would argue that the eagle-required MBs are inline with the mission of Boy Scouts and its identified methods.