What to do for girl AOL's in Cubs if no girl troop is available?

[Ojoman]

I understand that the folks at National are revisiting the issue of girls in troops as in girl troops vs blended troops. While I have no difficulty in troops being all male or all female, I am concerned about the number of girls that may be in Cubs and will find no girl troop within a reasonable distance. Most other countries have 'blended' units. Girls can be in their own patrols or a blended patrol but in our country just because only a couple of girls, or even 1 girl is graduating with AOL and when there isn't an all girl unit to join, why should their Scouting path come to a halt? I see this as a serious issue and one that needs resolved soon. 

[malraux]

Lone Scouts would seem to be the short term answer.

[qwazse]

53 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

... Most other countries have 'blended' units. Girls can be in their own patrols or a blended patrol but in our country just because only a couple of girls, or even 1 girl is graduating with AOL and when there isn't an all girl unit to join, why should their Scouting path come to a halt? I see this as a serious issue and one that needs resolved soon. 

Define “other countries” the largest organizations (India, Indonesia) are segregated. Some of the fastest growing (Pakistan) are unisex. Some of the slowest growing or declining (like ours) are facing negative growth. The most successful associations with blended organization are that way because their royals insisted it be so. Scouts UK has only just recovered its losses in male membership after decades of decline. And that was a result of a concerted effort of their leaders of Girl Guides insisting that everyone play nice.

So, why should a girl AOL lack a troop to crossover? Two causes:

• The president and congress have no interest in making  BSA and GS/USA “play nice” by (at the very least) sharing participation in Jamboree.
• The scout failed to recruit her friends (or enemies) and a trio of caring adults.

It is indeed a serious issue but as far as I can tell it’s not ours to solve until we are demanded to do so by 1) our youth or 2) our elected officials.

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

11 hours ago, qwazse said:

Define “other countries” the largest organizations (India, Indonesia) are segregated. Some of the fastest growing (Pakistan) are unisex. Some of the slowest growing or declining (like ours) are facing negative growth. The most successful associations with blended organization are that way because their royals insisted it be so. Scouts UK has only just recovered its losses in male membership after decades of decline. And that was a result of a concerted effort of their leaders of Girl Guides insisting that everyone play nice.

So, why should a girl AOL lack a troop to crossover? Two causes:

• The president and congress have no interest in making  BSA and GS/USA “play nice” by (at the very least) sharing participation in Jamboree.
• The scout failed to recruit her friends (or enemies) and a trio of caring adults.

It is indeed a serious issue but as far as I can tell it’s not ours to solve until we are demanded to do so by 1) our youth or 2) our elected officials.

 

Third cause:   Council not facilitating, educating/training, supporting the work it takes to administer a Troop

Fourth cause:  Parents not willing to put in the time or effort to create a Troop and mentor youth in through the program.

Fifth cause:  Council not focusing on a healthy unit climate and working to create the needed unit structure.  Lack of a good leadership structure (including pay) needed to recruit, train, support, and retain DE's... which results in a  lack of a solid District Volunteer Staff, Commissioner Corps, etc. etc. etc.

Edited December 8, 2022 by InquisitiveScouter

[Ojoman]

24 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Third cause:   Council not facilitating, educating/training, supporting the work it takes to administer a Troop

Fourth cause:  Parents not willing to put in the time or effort to create a Troop and mentor youth in through the program.

Fifth cause:  Council not focusing on a healthy unit climate and working to create the needed unit structure.  Lack of a good leadership structure (including pay) needed to recruit, train, support, and retain DE's... which results in a  lack of a solid District Volunteer Staff, Commissioner Corps, etc. etc. etc.

All good points... but, (RE: third cause) A girl troop only needs to recruit a female leader and can share the male troops leadership, meet at the same time (effectively with) the male troop and participate with the male troop on all activities as long as a female leader is involved. 

4th cause, both male and female units suffer from this so shared leadership makes sense. 

5th cause, I totally agree... 

Re: first and second: BSA is a private organization and the president (Honorary president of the BSA) and congress have no real say in how BSA runs. Regarding girls not doing enough to recruit buddies to form a girl troop... that would be a moot point if our units ran like other countries with blended programs. Great piece on that to read here: https://www.scouts.org.uk/volunteers/inclusion-and-diversity/including-everyone/girls-and-women-in-scouts/

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by Ojoman

[5thGenTexan]

I am a CC for our boys troop and girls troop.  In 2020 I began working on starting a Troop for girls in our community.  I had my daughter who as soon as it was allowed, I signed up in Cub Scouts and we pretty much ran through Webelos and AOL at the same time alone, at home.  As soon as she was finished with AOL I started promoting the potential Troop for girls and got absolutely nothing.  I was posting on FB in our community, on District FB, on Council FB and even was able to get an article in a real life newspaper.  I was able to get a few interested girls here and there, but when I got 4 and almost 5, two would lose interest.  So, never able to get 5 at one time to start things officially.  A year later, we tried again and with a couple of girls who were kids of leaders in the boy troop but had absolutely no interest in Scouts, we made our 5 even if a couple were just on paper.  I am rechartering with I think 9 Scouts this time.

There are no AOL girls about to cross over but there are 3 in the Webelos Den and as I understand it only 2 might want to be in the Troop when the time comes.  

My point here, girls have only been allowed to be in Cub Scouts since 2019.  We are about to start the 5th year of this nationally.  There hasnt even been the potential for a girl who joined as a Lion or Tiger to go through the entire program yet and see if they want to cross over to a Troop.  As with boy troops we have the challenges of sports, and I am talking these high dollar baseball and soccer leagues people put their kids in thinking they will be professionals one day.  Then there are normal sports in school, band, etc.  There are not enough hours in a week for everything that is offered now days.  

So, I am not sure how it can get "resolved soon".  The ambition and desires of youth today are not what they were in the past.  Not every kid is going to join Scouts, especially if 3/4 of their peer group is involved in something else and the parents of those kids are all friends as well, and going to those sporting events is their social activity.

I would love for more youth to be interested in Scouting.  I would love for National to allow us to have co-ed Troops.  But for every family that joins, you could lose two because one gender or the other is going to be hanging around at the same time.  Just from my experience in being involved in our two committees, outside of program, and as far as our community and really District as a whole.  There are NO easy answers to any of this.  There are challenges coming from 10 different directions all the time just trying to keep what we have going.

[Ojoman]

1 hour ago, 5thGenTexan said:

My point here, girls have only been allowed to be in Cub Scouts since 2019.  We are about to start the 5th year of this nationally.  There hasnt even been the potential for a girl who joined as a Lion or Tiger to go through the entire program yet and see if they want to cross over to a Troop. 

Great point: A big issue for Scouts is recruiting new members. and for decades now, rather than actually try to recruit, many troops simply depend on AOL's crossing over. Retention in a pack with a 6 year long program is a serious issue. If a pack does not retain members they will end up with few, if any, Aol's to cross to a troop. I would hope that now that things have settled down regarding covid that packs will do better recruiting and that they will address retention issues. 

[mrjohns2]

Well, you'll have to found a new troop like we all have had to do since 2019. It has been quite a ride. We started with 2, got together 5, and are now at 18. 

[qwazse]

On 12/8/2022 at 10:33 AM, Ojoman said:

... Re: first and second: BSA is a private organization and the president (Honorary president of the BSA) and congress have no real say in how BSA runs. Regarding girls not doing enough to recruit buddies to form a girl troop... that would be a moot point if our units ran like other countries with blended programs. Great piece on that to read here: https://www.scouts.org.uk/volunteers/inclusion-and-diversity/including-everyone/girls-and-women-in-scouts/

 

@Ojoman, do you know what tipped BSA to change its attitude towards scouts and scouters with a permissive sexual ethic? This clip from our president

Titular power is quite real. And the fact that no POTUS has issued an opinion on co-ed scouting, nor has congress made a non-binding resolution in favor of it ... that should speak volumes to your scout. Politicians have gladly done photo-ops with our female scouts, but they have not asserted that co-ed is or is not the way BSA should go.

A few years ago, I made a rough calculus (too lazy to dredge the post and link it) that for BSA to shift policy regarding sex-segregation, it would take a couple of thousand girls across the country wanting to be part of BSA troops. The reason BSA began the "family scouting" doublespeak when it realized that there were 10,000 girls knocking at the gate.

With all due respect to @InquisitiveScouter's position that local council ineptitude and parental apathy contribute to the problem, I will assert (again): if it really mattered to the bulk of citizens, councils would not be inept. If parents thought really needed the program, they would give a care.

So, either elected officials step up and tell our citizens to support co-ed scouting (or every girl working the BSA program), or your scout rallies like-minded girls to tell their parents how much a BSA4G troop really, really matters.

[Eagle1993]

8 minutes ago, qwazse said:

if it really mattered to the bulk of citizens, councils would not be inept. If parents thought really needed the program, they would give a care.

I think this is true for the whole of scouting.  The lack of girl troops in scouting is because, for the most part, the bulk of citizens don't care.  Same reason why scouting is falling for boys ... because the bulk of citizens don't care about scouting. 

In 1960, 20% of boys were in scouts.  Just talking about boys, if the same ratio existed today, we would have 6 million scouts.  Since we offer services to girls as well, we should have close to 12 million scouts.  We are under 1 million scouts across boys & girls.  I think BSA can help change this, but National Leadership is mute.

BSA has a lot of choices to make.  One is going to have to be if they tell girls they have no option after 5th grade while the boys they had been working with move on to Troops.  I'm seeing this frequently as many girl only troops struggle to maintain 5 scouts in my area.  (Boy Troops are also falling/dropping).

If BSA does not want to give that message, then they could allow coed Troops.  No need for additional overhead to create single gender girl troops.   I would expect more Troops would be available for girls.

If BSA does not like those two choices, the only other option is to stop admitting girls into Cub Scouts if there is not a path for them in Scouts BSA.  Perhaps that is decided at District Level.  This is a bit of chicken/egg situation as previously mentioned, but Boy Scouts of America started at the Troop level.  I would argue Troops/Boy Scouts/Scouts BSA has the biggest impact on youth, is the most unique offering BSA offers and has the most important impact on the country at large.  If you cannot first setup Girl Troops in your district, then you shouldn't start allowing girls in Cub Scouts.

None of this helps the question at hand.  You have 2 options.  Lone scout OR creating a girls only Troop by recruiting more girls.  Perhaps an existing boy troop will help be a linked unit.