skeptic Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 Can a scout on the extended program for challenge individuals continue in some format such as Lone Scout when his meds and emotional issues can be of concern, or even frightening? It seems unfair and counterprocuctive to simply separate them if they start to have unforeseen issues as they age. Thoughts, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuctTape Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 Bear in mind I have zero experience with Lone Scouts, nor with scouts who have such significant challenges which could necessitate a need to be separate from the group. That said, IMO any part of the Scouting, including Lone Scout should be available to any scout regardless of disability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjohns2 Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 1 hour ago, skeptic said: Can a scout on the extended program for challenge individuals continue in some format such as Lone Scout when his meds and emotional issues can be of concern, or even frightening? Are you thinking of this in the abstract or with a particular situation? I'm not quite following the situation. Any Scout, no matter the age (even if they are a Program or Unit participate, Scouts who have approval to continue past 18) can't put at risk other Scouts or Scouters. It would be up to their council if they can continue as Lone Scouts. Having any Lone Scouts, or a particular Lone Scout, is up to the council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted December 4, 2022 Author Share Posted December 4, 2022 An issue totally unespected and out of the blue. Been in the program since cubs, and other than occasional breaking of something in frustration, never threatening to others. Something went awry it would seem and his doctors are involved. It just seems that if we can work with him in some way that does not put others in harms way, or he is proven to be tempered, would Lone Scout be an option. A lot of "ifs", and not something likely in the books directly. On the other hand, we have a history of reaching out to troubled youth and giving them a chance if possible. It just seems a shame to see his efforts to date to be lost. But, we have to put the others ahead; that is understood. Thanks for your comments. Probably one of those untenable situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 1 hour ago, skeptic said: An issue totally unespected and out of the blue. Been in the program since cubs, and other than occasional breaking of something in frustration, never threatening to others. Something went awry it would seem and his doctors are involved. It just seems that if we can work with him in some way that does not put others in harms way, or he is proven to be tempered, would Lone Scout be an option. A lot of "ifs", and not something likely in the books directly. On the other hand, we have a history of reaching out to troubled youth and giving them a chance if possible. It just seems a shame to see his efforts to date to be lost. But, we have to put the others ahead; that is understood. Thanks for your comments. Probably one of those untenable situations. As @mrjohns2 relays, it is entirely up to the council. Start with the Registrar. Call and explain the situation. Ask if there are any Lone Scouts in your council already. If yes, then they will most likely add this Scout. If no, ask if the Registrar would support you if you asked for this Scout to be added as a Lone Scout. Although it is the SE's decision, it is the registrar who will gain the extra workload. So, if the Registrar is on board, it makes things easier. If the Registrar declines, then go ahead and call your SE and ask, but expect the answer to be "No". If "No" then ask the SE if they would support your calling neighboring councils to see if any will accept Lone Scouts. Keep pushing, courteously, and you will find a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred8033 Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 It's okay to work with troubled scouts, but boundaries exist. Scouts that can't control themselves or are a risk to others do need to be separated from the troop. As for lone scout, I always question the value of it. Scout's value is in working with other scouts. Scouting is about community and developing connections. At some point, lone scout sounds more like getting rank than getting value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, fred8033 said: It's okay to work with troubled scouts, but boundaries exist. Scouts that can't control themselves or are a risk to others do need to be separated from the troop. As for lone scout, I always question the value of it. Scout's value is in working with other scouts. Scouting is about community and developing connections. At some point, lone scout sounds more like getting rank than getting value. 2 minutes ago, fred8033 said: It's okay to work with troubled scouts, but boundaries exist. Scouts that can't control themselves or are a risk to others do need to be separated from the troop. As for lone scout, I always question the value of it. Scout's value is in working with other scouts. Scouting is about community and developing connections. At some point, lone scout sounds more like getting rank than getting value.  Character, citizenship, fitness, leadership... Would helping this Scout with 3 out of 4 be acceptable? Edited December 4, 2022 by InquisitiveScouter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 I’ve known scouts who finished their Eagle advancement while in juvenile detention. So I’m quick to say anything’s possible. But … When a seasoned scouter has his doubts, it’s time to ask hard questions. What will a Lone Scout program offer the scout that he may not already have via his treatment program? Are you sure nobody in your council is trying a scouting program for kids with behavior disorders? There’s no boiler-plate. So, you need to find the scouters in your council who may handle a program specifically for this. This is one of those situations where a note to your SE might actually be productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted December 4, 2022 Author Share Posted December 4, 2022 43 minutes ago, qwazse said: I’ve known scouts who finished their Eagle advancement while in juvenile detention. So I’m quick to say anything’s possible. But … When a seasoned scouter has his doubts, it’s time to ask hard questions. What will a Lone Scout program offer the scout that he may not already have via his treatment program? Are you sure nobody in your council is trying a scouting program for kids with behavior disorders? There’s no boiler-plate. So, you need to find the scouters in your council who may handle a program specifically for this. This is one of those situations where a note to your SE might actually be productive. Sadly, so far his response has been simply thrown him to the side of the road, more or less. Not what I would think we might expect, especially with the history prior and his acchievements. The unit will likely discuss seriously some more and hopefully find a workable option that protects others, but does not abandon the lad. Thanks for the comments. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 (edited) Good luck. I’ve worked with committees faced with these kinds of decisions where every solution sounds like a bad one. Edited December 5, 2022 by qwazse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred8033 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 57 minutes ago, skeptic said: ... The unit will likely discuss seriously some more and hopefully find a workable option that protects others, but does not abandon the lad. ... The challenge is always that the unit leaders are volunteers. They are not paid or trained to handle EBD kids and EBD some of the hardest cases. Worse, those unit volunteers are usually parents too. They will say one thing and do another. My favorite: "if any kid needs scouting, it's this kid" ... BUT ... at the same time, they will quickly pull back on their own kid's involvement because they are afraid of the impact. OR, their own kid gets scared away. ... It can kill membership and influence previous recruiting ties to go elsewhere. I'm not saying abandon the scout. I'm saying this is a really hard situation and always is. A pragmatic approach is important. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred8033 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 19 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said: Character, citizenship, fitness, leadership... Would helping this Scout with 3 out of 4 be acceptable? Lone scout learning leadership? Citizenship by themselves? Or do you mean the four merit badges? Character as a lone scout? Is it any different from homeschooling by the parents? Fitness by themselves? Fitness is achieved by being in an active, busy group; not just a merit badge. IMHO, a specific sport would be better than the lone scout program. Scouting is social. I'm not against the lone scout for isolated families, but I question the match in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 12 hours ago, fred8033 said: Lone scout learning leadership? Citizenship by themselves? Or do you mean the four merit badges? Character as a lone scout? Is it any different from homeschooling by the parents? Fitness by themselves? Fitness is achieved by being in an active, busy group; not just a merit badge. IMHO, a specific sport would be better than the lone scout program. Scouting is social. I'm not against the lone scout for isolated families, but I question the match in this situation. Recommended reading to help open your aperture a bit... https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/boyscouts/pdf/511-420.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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