Catholics turn

[Eagledad]

2 minutes ago, jcousino said:

getting any level of scouts to admit it needs help is hard enough. Both paid and volunteers. the few high functioning units i have seen over my years where one,s that had a high functioning scoutmaster that keep the group together and would leverage other adults as needed. most where past upper level  managers/owners. 

Well said.

Humility is the fertile ground for the growth of integrity.

Barry

[jcousino]

1 minute ago, Eagledad said:

Well said.

Humility is the fertile ground for the growth of integrity.

Barry

unfortunately a lot of ground has been made rocky by false vanity 

[MattR]

I think you guys are being a bit naive on this one. If there's one thing I've learned about the scouting program it's that motivating scouts about character only works on those that essentially already get it. If a scout doesn't want to be bothered about character then it's a really hard slog. So either the parents believe that character is important or, on occasion, a scout's parents are bad enough that the scout sees a need for good character. But that's not to say that there aren't lots of scouts or their parents that want to get Eagle. And there lies a big problem. Absolutely vanity is preventing improvement. But greed is oh so much worse. If you really want to improve program quality then remove the biggest source of greed, rank advancement. Be a scout because you believe in the ideals, not that you're going to get a better job. I got so tired of listening to scouts that, when asked why they were in scouts, said first that they were going to get a better job or into a better university or it would make their resume look better. It used to be very rare when they said that. It always used to be about fun, friends and the outdoors. But it has changed. I was shocked the first time I heard something about payback. The last time I asked a group of scouts why they were in scouts it was close to half that said they were going to get something from earning a badge. Maybe it's my town that has changed but I doubt it. TikTok, likes, influencers, search algorithms ... our lexicon has changed to that of greed and dopamine hits. This program used to work because most of the volunteers really believed in the fundamentals. They believed in it so much that they wanted to make it work. Quality would have been an easy sell then. But that has eroded over time. There are still people that believe in the the ideals but there needs to be a critical mass of those people in order for a unit to deliver a good program, where the idea of improving quality is even viable. My guess is that most units feel they're delivering a quality program if some kids are getting Eagle patches. And it makes sense because that's how the program is sold.

Character is what you do when nobody is looking. It's not rank. It's not NESA. It's not OA. It's not a MB sash. It's not data in a database. It's what you do with your patrol when no adults are around. So, the first thing to do to make a quality program is to focus on a program with character and remove all the other distractions. Eagle is the biggest distraction. This reminds me of the Woodbadge game Win All You Can. Eagle is just goading people to do bad things. But they never come out and say it. It used to be that it was a method and could be used to develop character but that script has flipped.

But that will never happen.

 

 

[fred8033]

On 11/15/2024 at 6:06 PM, InquisitiveScouter said:

What are yours, and how could we fix?

Commissioner corps?  District commissioners have worked okay, but I've never, never seen unit commissioners work well.  IMHO, 98% of the time unit commissioners is a broken concept ... for many, many, many reasons.

The quality issue is because scouting is conceptually simple, but the implementation is way overly complex; too complex for most leaders.  Worse, the program delivery has far too much variety.  The program would do better if it focused more on getting the scouts outside and being active.  Worry less about leadership and character.  Instead, focus on being active.  Then, leadership and character comes as a result of being active.

Edited 2 hours ago by fred8033

[InquisitiveScouter]

14 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Commissioner corps?  District commissioners have worked okay, but I've never, never seen unit commissioners work well.  IMHO, 98% of the time unit commissioners is a broken concept ... for many, many, many reasons.

The quality issue is because scouting is conceptually simple, but the implementation is way overly complex; too complex for most leaders.  Worse, the program delivery has far too much variety.  The program would do better if it focused more on getting the scouts outside and being active.  Worry less about leadership and character.  Instead, focus on being active.  Then, leadership and character comes as a result of being active.

Agreed!

And I think we would do better if we set the expectation that adults will learn Scout skills as well.

Most adults I know cannot tie the seven basic knots in the Scout Handbook (much less do any lashing), use a map and compass to find their way, sleep outside in less than 40 degree weather, go backpacking, or, more generally, know most of the things in the Scout Handbook that Scouts have to know (or know what "right" looks like).  And they are afraid to admit it and then go learn.

What happened to Be, Know, Do?