Catholics turn

[fred8033]

22 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Yep, National made major changes to the Tiger program in 1999, switching from 2 meetings a month to 4 meetings and requiring an adult to attend all activities with each Tiger scout. The Cub program was already overburdened, but those changes added insult to injury and made it less desirable to busy parents. The drop was predictable, as was the sudden drop of Troops four years later that resulted from the decline of the Cub program. 

If I remember right, membership had been dropping in the early 1990s until the war in Iraq. The sudden boost of patriotism seemed to motivate temporary growth in the BSA.

Barry

If I had to do it again, starting in 2nd or 3rd grade would have been plenty early enough.  Just like anything, the program got old fast.

[Eagledad]

32 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

If I had to do it again, starting in 2nd or 3rd grade would have been plenty early enough.  Just like anything, the program got old fast.

I was the Dist Membership Chair between 1995 and 2000. National polled our opinions of the early Tiger program and what changes would improve the program. I was shocked to learn that the changes in 1999 were the opposite of the suggestions we provided. I ran the district meeting that announced the changes to the packs, and they were not received well. Two packs quit their Tiger program, and several others didn't add the changes. We learned later that National based their program changes from polls of Tiger parents. Not pack leaders. That also explains why National went to the much more expensive blue shirts from the much cheaper Tiger T-shirts. That was another big deal for young, busy parents who were deciding whether to join.

Barry

[MattR]

On 11/3/2024 at 1:56 PM, HashTagScouts said:

Membership started steady decline after 1999.

I think it really started well before that. There's a peak around 1973, just about when I joined, and then there's another, smaller peak, around 1990. The first peak probably corresponds to the baby boom kids being old enough to be in scouts. That second peak is likely from the children of those in the first peak.

[mrjohns2]

The peaks have interesting demographic connections. Percentage of scout age children, boys before and all now, would help eliminate these impacts. 

[BetterWithCheddar]

Since this is a Catholic-specific thread, I think it's important to also acknowledge that participation in organized religion has also decreased during the same time period. The number of self-identifying Catholic adults peaked in the US around 2005 at ~81 million. While there has not been a steep decline (there were still ~73 million self-identifying Catholic adults in 2023), church membership has not kept pace with population growth. Since churches have historically been big supporters of Scouting, this may help explain a portion of the membership decline.

Fewer families going to church ---> Fewer kids in Scouting

Faith Survey | American Catholic Statistics (1965-2021)

[Tron]

On 11/4/2024 at 7:07 AM, fred8033 said:

#1  Game systems and internet growth
#2  Burnout by expanding to younger and younger ages.
#3  Lack of perceived rich and rewarding program; whether caused by burnout or too much focus on leadership or just plan lack of focus on fun and adventure.  Now, those 1990s kids are having kids and deciding there are better ways for their own kids to spend time.  

IMHO, little of the membership drop is about policies.  It's about product and perception of the product.  

I am starting to believe that the #1 problem is quality control. So many bad units run by bad leaders. How many kids join, have a horrible experience, quit, and never come back? 

[Tron]

On 11/9/2024 at 6:00 AM, BetterWithCheddar said:

Since this is a Catholic-specific thread, I think it's important to also acknowledge that participation in organized religion has also decreased during the same time period. The number of self-identifying Catholic adults peaked in the US around 2005 at ~81 million. While there has not been a steep decline (there were still ~73 million self-identifying Catholic adults in 2023), church membership has not kept pace with population growth. Since churches have historically been big supporters of Scouting, this may help explain a portion of the membership decline.

Fewer families going to church ---> Fewer kids in Scouting

Faith Survey | American Catholic Statistics (1965-2021)

Maybe, most the strongest units in my area have some sort of relationship with a church that provides large amounts of space for storage and program use. There is definitely something that strengthens units when they say "We meet every week on Wednesday night at 7PM unless it's a major holiday like Christmas".

[fred8033]

2 hours ago, Tron said:

I am starting to believe that the #1 problem is quality control. So many bad units run by bad leaders. How many kids join, have a horrible experience, quit, and never come back? 

Agreed.  Quality control is a major issue.  ... Scouting is like ordering a McDonalds Quarter Pounder and having equal odds of getting chicken nuggets, a taco or dog food.  

Units have such different personalities and habits.  Leaders are even more varied.  When the scouting magic is there, it's a wonderful experience.  It's easy to miss out on that magic though.

[InquisitiveScouter]

30 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Agreed.  Quality control is a major issue.  ... Scouting is like ordering a McDonalds Quarter Pounder and having equal odds of getting chicken nuggets, a taco or dog food.  

Units have such different personalities and habits.  Leaders are even more varied.  When the scouting magic is there, it's a wonderful experience.  It's easy to miss out on that magic though.

This is what the Commissioner Corps is supposed to be for.  And, in all the councils I have been in, it has been sorely lacking.  I have some thoughts on the reasons for this.  What are yours, and how could we fix?

Edited Saturday at 12:06 AM by InquisitiveScouter

[ParkMan]

4 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

This is what the Commissioner Corps is supposed to be for.  And, in all the councils I have been in, it has been sorely lacking.  I have some thoughts on the reasons for this.  What are yours, and how could we fix?

In our council, recruiting and developing Commissioners is an afterthought.  Yes, Commissioners constantly say they'd like to recruit more Commissioners - but a district is lucky to see one new Commissioner a year.  Ongoing training and mentoring for Commissioners is sparse.

If you want to fix this, Councils need to make recruiting and developing Commissioners a focus area.  All hands need to be on deck in identifying quality Commissioners.  The professionals need to participate in this process as well.

Commissioners should be activly developed and should be part of the process whenever a professional contacts a unit.  Further, when a Commissioner identifies a unit need, the rest of the team - be it volunteer or professional - needs to help in solving the unit's issue.

Edited Saturday at 04:48 AM by ParkMan

[BetterWithCheddar]

13 hours ago, Tron said:

I am starting to believe that the #1 problem is quality control. So many bad units run by bad leaders. How many kids join, have a horrible experience, quit, and never come back? 

This definitely ranks up there with the top problems, but what are you doing to do? As much as we claim Scouting is a youth-driven program, we all know it's parent-driven. A program is only going to go as far as volunteers are willing to take it. As a Den Leader, I spend lots of invisible hours and dollars (my own money) to help the Pack. And I'm just one guy - we're fortunate to have a good group of parents that help with our program (but it can be exhausting).

One of the reasons why travel sports have grown in popularity vs. Scouting is that they are less work for most parents. Sure, they cost 4x as much as Scouting, but I get to just show up and be a dad.

[Eagledad]

On 11/15/2024 at 2:42 PM, Tron said:

I am starting to believe that the #1 problem is quality control. So many bad units run by bad leaders. How many kids join, have a horrible experience, quit, and never come back? 

A lot. But it’s not new. As we’ve discussed before, over 50% of  Webelos 2s don’t crossover into troops. Add in the number of cubs that quit in the other 4 years. And just about all that is on bad adult leadership. I’m guessing nationally that at least 60% of cubs don’t don’t finish the cub program.

The troop program has the problem that troops loose more first year scouts than any other year in the BSA program.

BUT, to be fair, most bad leaders are parents with average skills. The Cub program is over burdened and overly complicated for parents with average skills. The training and professional support doesn’t supplement these parents enough to bring their skills up to lead a quality program.

Parents with skills for a quality program typically were scouts as a youth. Especially in troops.

The Cub program needs an overhaul.

Barry

[Eagle94-A1]

On 11/15/2024 at 7:06 PM, InquisitiveScouter said:

This is what the Commissioner Corps is supposed to be for. 

On 11/15/2024 at 6:35 PM, fred8033 said:

Agreed.  Quality control is a major issue.  ...

Units have such different personalities and habits.  Leaders are even more varied....

Former commissioner here. Agree the Commissioner Corps is suppose to be about quality control. But you also need Scouters who are willing to acknowledge they have weak programs, and be willing to listen to advice. Sadly I have encountered  such Scouters over the years who refuse to see the weakness of their program, and refuse to change. Commissioners can only coach and advise. they have no authority to implement change in a unit.

I had one such unit. After over a year of being ignored, I stopped trying. Successor commissioners to that unit, including one who knew the SM well as they were ASMs together at one point, were also ignored.

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

Somehow we need to cultivate a culture of the Pursuit of Excellence.

I, too, meet scads of Scouters who are unwilling to admit that they need some changes to improve their Scouting.

Good luck overcoming this psychological barrier. 

[jcousino]

9 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Former commissioner here. Agree the Commissioner Corps is suppose to be about quality control. But you also need Scouters who are willing to acknowledge they have weak programs, and be willing to listen to advice. Sadly I have encountered  such Scouters over the years who refuse to see the weakness of their program, and refuse to change. Commissioners can only coach and advise. they have no authority to implement change in a unit.

I had one such unit. After over a year of being ignored, I stopped trying. Successor commissioners to that unit, including one who knew the SM well as they were ASMs together at one point, were also ignored.

 

getting any level of scouts to admit it needs help is hard enough. Both paid and volunteers. the few high functioning units i have seen over my years where one,s that had a high functioning scoutmaster that keep the group together and would leverage other adults as needed. most where past upper level  managers/owners.