Catholics turn

[SiouxRanger]

1 hour ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

What the BSA should have done in each case of alleged abuse is file a police report and let them investigate and worry about the prosecutability of each case. That's the "do more" that people think they should have done. (Including me.) It isn't the BSA's job to prosecute crimes, so while you're correct in that the BSA was in parts indeed trying to keep scouts safe (and sometimes succeeded, as detailed in both documentaries and as people here on the forum know cases of), the responsibility of enforcing laws and ensuring public safety lies with police. When you think a crime has been committed, you call the police and you help them as best as you possibly can. This is the principle, including but not limited to when the crimes involve the BSA and/or pedophilia. 

Yep. And then, at least the BSA has done its civil duty.

[SiouxRanger]

1 hour ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

Serious crimes were committed against our fellow scouts en masse. That really happened. That is the real problem. (And I'm glad you did acknowledge it in a sentence.)

Does this reference something I posted? If so, which sentence.

[SiouxRanger]

1 hour ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

So when the conversation goes in a the-lawsuit-is-all-just-a-malicious-attack direction, the implication from a survivor point of view could very well be "I care more about the BSA as an organization than my fellow scouts and scouters". I can't speak for the survivors, but that's what I take away from what you're arguing.

It is not clear to me to which poster you are referring. But that is not my position.

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

5 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

It is not clear to me to which poster you are referring. But that is not my position.

Apologies for the lack of clarity - I'm referring to @HICO_Eagle when he kicked this tangent off with

On 8/5/2023 at 11:15 PM, HICO_Eagle said:

While I agree that Scouting as we knew it is likely done, I am not thankful for that condition.  I also disagree with the societal trend to blame BSA for past ills rather than the miscreants themselves.  Lawyers went after BSA because it had resources that they could reach easily:  land.  Going after the actual perpetrators would have been fruitless from the lawyers' point of view because many of them are dead or don't have significant resources.

Remember, the secret files that were used to prove the case against BSA were secret largely because BSA couldn't prove criminal charges against the men in question.  Even openly questioning them would have exposed BSA to liability for defaming the men in question.

In my opinion, these lawsuits and the resulting impacts are the culmination of a decades long attack on Scouting as one of the pillars of traditional American society.  The activists used vile deeds by a very small minority of people to attack and undermine the entire organization -- and then not only refuse to condemn that minority but encourage the spread of those very actions.  Just look at their current attempts to change terminology from "pedophiles" to "minor-attracted persons".

 

[RememberSchiff]

Update 01/17/2024:   2024 marks the end of an era for Catholic Boy Scouts in Hawaii  

The connection  between the Boy Scouts of America and the Catholic parishes and schools in the Diocese of Honolulu officially came to an end Jan 1.

The decision was made at the start of 2023 when Bishop Larry Silva announced the diocese would be parting ways with the Boy Scouts of America on the first day of the year 2024 due to sexual abuse allegations.

In a letter released on Jan. 31, 2023, the bishop wrote, “Unfortunately, given the liability issues and our dissatisfaction with the BSA’s cooperation on the issue, we will no longer allow parishes and parish schools to charter a BSA unit, nor will BSA units be allowed to meet in our facilities.”

“It is important that we continue to minister to our youth in various ways, but continuing our longstanding relationship with BSA has become more of a liability than we judge it prudent to bear,” he said.

The 10 Boy Scout units sponsored by the diocese. have either found new charter organizations or have disbanded.

More at source:

https://hawaiicatholicherald.com/2024/01/17/2024-marks-the-end-of-an-era-for-catholic-boy-scouts-in-hawaii/

[RememberSchiff]

‘Scouting is back,’ going strong teaching life skills to youths in Archdiocese of Baltimore

...Archdiocesan Scouting officials hope to glimpse the future of the programs at an April 19-21 retreat at Walkersville Watershed in Frederick. It’s the first since the end of the COVID-19 pandemic, and Father Jim Bors, appointed last year as chaplain of the Archdiocesan Catholic Committee on Scouting Leadership, hopes it will show “that Scouting is back.”

In addition to camping and outdoor activities, there will be talks on the rosary as well as eucharistic adoration and the sacrament of reconciliation.

To draw as many Scouts as possible, there’s a Saturday-only option, and it’s also open to all Catholic youths in Scouts BSA, Venturing, Sea Scouts, Exploring, Cub Scouts, Troops of St. George, Trail Life, American Heritage Girls, Girl Scouts and Camp Fire.

For Father Bors, a Naval Academy graduate who is associate pastor of Our Lady of the Chesapeake in Lake Shore and St. Jane Frances de Chantal in Riviera Beach, the retreat will be an opportunity to assess Scouting as an extension of youth ministry....

More at source:

https://catholicreview.org/scouting-is-back-going-strong-teaching-life-skills-to-youths-in-archdiocese-of-baltimore/

[RememberSchiff]

The Diocese of Youngstown (OH) parishes will no longer charter BSA units. 

Bishop David Bonnar mentioned insurance coverage, potential liability , and “changes in Scouting itself.” as reasons.

"This policy decision will not affect religious activities and awards available to Scouts through the National Catholic Committee on Scouting, he said."

https://www.wytv.com/news/local-news/youngstown-diocese-no-more-scouting-activities-on-church-school-grounds/

 

Edited September 15 by RememberSchiff

[PACAN]

“Changes in Scouting itself”.  
 

Wonder which changes they are talking about?

[fred8033]

13 minutes ago, PACAN said:

“Changes in Scouting itself”.   ... Wonder which changes they are talking about?

All of them.   Explicit policies.  Controversies.  Societal change.  

Churches are not 100% altruistic.  Churches used scouting to advance their own purpose: to develop faith, not directly but thru the side-door.  Even if it's not your own faith, it still helps develop faith.  ...  With all the changes and controversies, charter orgs are re-thinking does scouting really help advance their own purpose.

Edited September 19 by fred8033

[PACAN]

These issues have been around for a number of years.   Wonder if there was something that pushed the Diocese to dropping scouts including not meeting.   It was nice that they said the scouts could still work on religious emblems but I’m guessing the church would not allow the scouts to receive their awards at Scout Sunday Mass.

 

yeesh 

[yknot]

1 hour ago, PACAN said:

These issues have been around for a number of years.   Wonder if there was something that pushed the Diocese to dropping scouts including not meeting.  

The way it was explained to me was that the impacts of the bankruptcy case and lawsuits will continue to affect the liability insurance market for a number of years if not decades. As individual insurers or insurer groups encounter these rolling effects, we probably shouldn't be surprised if their recommendations change and/or rates increase. 

[Eagle94-A1]

I know my local Catholic Church was in the process of starting a new pack and troop. Then they decided against it. I am told it was the lawsuit and the insurance increases involved.

[Cleveland Rocks]

On 9/15/2024 at 11:12 AM, RememberSchiff said:

The Diocese of Youngstown (OH) parishes will no longer charter BSA units. 

Bishop David Bonnar mentioned insurance coverage, potential liability , and “changes in Scouting itself.” as reasons.

"This policy decision will not affect religious activities and awards available to Scouts through the National Catholic Committee on Scouting, he said."

https://www.wytv.com/news/local-news/youngstown-diocese-no-more-scouting-activities-on-church-school-grounds/

 

More context on this:

This has been in the works for over two years.

The diocese was originally willing to do facility use agreements so units could continue to meet at their facilities,  like has been done in other parts of the country, even if they no longer chartered the units. But, they wanted to include a stipulation: the councils affected by this in their area (Lake Erie, Great Trail, Buckeye) would have to take out additional liability insurance policies to cover those affected units, before they would agree to facility use agreements. Great Trail said the annual premium for them alone would have been $45,000 - 50,000 for something like 14 units. The councils declined, saying they could not justify the additional expenses, and when negotiations ultimately broke down, the diocese then stated that the units not only would no longer be chartered to Youngstown Diocese parishes, but were not welcome in any capacity on church and school grounds. This apparently also affects Girl Scout troops, even though they don't charter units like the BSA does.

One unit in the Warren area has a dilemma on their hands: some years ago their alumni association (who actually charters the troop) raised $250,000 to build a 2,500 square-foot program and resource building (they have LOTS of equipment that needs storing) on the grounds of the Catholic church who previously chartered them. Now they're trying to figure out what to do in light of this decision, since the building is on church property.

It is believed that the Youngstown Diocese is the first diocese to take the "Go Nuclear" option from the NCCS Statement Regarding the Chartering of Catholic Units. Most dioceses have chosen to either keep things they way they are or enter into facility use agreements but no longer charter the units.

https://nccs-bsa.org/download/updated-statement-regarding-the-chartering-of-catholic-units/

[Tron]

On 9/25/2024 at 12:33 PM, Cleveland Rocks said:

More context on this:

This has been in the works for over two years.

The diocese was originally willing to do facility use agreements so units could continue to meet at their facilities,  like has been done in other parts of the country, even if they no longer chartered the units. But, they wanted to include a stipulation: the councils affected by this in their area (Lake Erie, Great Trail, Buckeye) would have to take out additional liability insurance policies to cover those affected units, before they would agree to facility use agreements. Great Trail said the annual premium for them alone would have been $45,000 - 50,000 for something like 14 units. The councils declined, saying they could not justify the additional expenses, and when negotiations ultimately broke down, the diocese then stated that the units not only would no longer be chartered to Youngstown Diocese parishes, but were not welcome in any capacity on church and school grounds. This apparently also affects Girl Scout troops, even though they don't charter units like the BSA does.

One unit in the Warren area has a dilemma on their hands: some years ago their alumni association (who actually charters the troop) raised $250,000 to build a 2,500 square-foot program and resource building (they have LOTS of equipment that needs storing) on the grounds of the Catholic church who previously chartered them. Now they're trying to figure out what to do in light of this decision, since the building is on church property.

It is believed that the Youngstown Diocese is the first diocese to take the "Go Nuclear" option from the NCCS Statement Regarding the Chartering of Catholic Units. Most dioceses have chosen to either keep things they way they are or enter into facility use agreements but no longer charter the units.

https://nccs-bsa.org/download/updated-statement-regarding-the-chartering-of-catholic-units/

The alumni association could do a fundraiser to get a liability policy just for the unit. 
 

[DeaconLance]

I am surprised the facilities use agreement was even contemplated.  Catholic Mutual advised dioceses to stick to charter agreements or do not allow any use at all.