Catholics turn

[mrjohns2]

7 hours ago, PACAN said:

Any others heard any more on this subject?

My friend told me his Bishop is staying with chartering scout units.   

I don't think there is much more than local reports on the subject. Some are staying and some are going. 

[PACAN]

Saw where the Rockford Diocese has severed ties. 

[Tired_Eagle_Feathers]

This whole thing reminds me of how strange it is that troops need a charter organization at all.

They should be able to self-charter and just rent a meeting location.

 

[Eagle1993]

34 minutes ago, Tired_Eagle_Feathers said:

This whole thing reminds me of how strange it is that troops need a charter organization at all.

They should be able to self-charter and just rent a meeting location.

 

Some do through "Friends of...".  I know we did that for our unit for a few years.  However, when we looked at liability (among other reasons) we became concerned and found a CO.   Some entity needs to be directly responsible for the unit.

Feb 8th The Milwaukee archdiocese announced they will stop charter agreements starting Jan 1 2024.

[Protoclete]

On 12/5/2022 at 8:37 PM, T2Eagle said:

Nope, Sentinel is correct, Bishops answer only to the Pope, or higher.  The USCCB can vote on recommended actions, and a whole lot of pressure would be brought to bare on any diocese dissenting.  For that reason it is only really important matters that reach that kind of action.  But in the end, the Bishop who heads the diocese runs the diocese as they will.

No, as pointed out by the reference to the chances to the code of canon law, there are in fact decisions that can be made by the episcopal conference that are binding on all members. But of course, it is the bishops themselves who pass those laws, so if they don't want to agree to something they won't. But the charter for the protection of minors is one example. The USCCB could have decided to make a national decision, but instead opted to leave it up to the individual dioceses. (Which is their most common decision). 

Bishops are part of both a province and a national episcopal conference, as well as a particular ritual church, before they are part of the universal church, and answerable to each of those levels in different ways. 

[MikeS72]

2 hours ago, Protoclete said:

No, as pointed out by the reference to the chances to the code of canon law, there are in fact decisions that can be made by the episcopal conference that are binding on all members. But of course, it is the bishops themselves who pass those laws, so if they don't want to agree to something they won't. But the charter for the protection of minors is one example. The USCCB could have decided to make a national decision, but instead opted to leave it up to the individual dioceses. (Which is their most common decision). 

Bishops are part of both a province and a national episcopal conference, as well as a particular ritual church, before they are part of the universal church, and answerable to each of those levels in different ways. 

Probably true as relates to the Episcopal church, but @T2Eaglewas referring to the USCCB, which is the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

[KublaiKen]

@Protoclete is correct as relates to the Roman Catholic Church. His use of episcopal is lower case in this instance by design.

[Protoclete]

On 3/2/2023 at 2:40 PM, MikeS72 said:

Probably true as relates to the Episcopal church, but @T2Eaglewas referring to the USCCB, which is the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

Yes, i was referring to the Catholic episcopal conferences.
The Episcopal Church is something else altogether, and part of the Anglican Communion. 

Some bishops want to act as if they only answer to the pope, (and even then they don't like it) but that simply isn't Catholic ecclesiology. 

[RememberSchiff]

"Starting in January 2024, Hawaii Catholic parishes will no longer be allowed to host Boy Scout groups."

“Unfortunately, given the liability issues and our dissatisfaction with the BSA’s cooperation on the issue, we will no longer allow parishes and parish schools to charter a BSA unit, nor will BSA units be allowed to meet in our facilities.” Bishop Silva, Diocese of Honolulu

https://hawaiicatholicherald.com/2023/06/07/boy-scouts-will-no-longer-be-sponsored-by-hawaii-catholic-churches/

[PACAN]

"our dissatisfaction with the BSA’s cooperation on the issue, "

 

Wonder what that means?

[TuckahoeJoe]

I am COR and CC of two units at a Catholic parish in Harrisburg.  The parish will not renew in 2024.  Catholic Mutual recommended and the Harrisburg diocese accepted the two options of 1) charter with complete oversight or 2) disassociate if unable to provide complete oversight.  Catholic Mutual is the same insurance company that stipulated in the bankruptcy proceeding that it would promote scouting in Catholic entities through 2036.  

Catholic Mutual is also raising the premium of any parish that charters scouting units.  Unfortunately, these increased costs resulted in the decision.

 

 

 

[jcousino]

interesting, No neutral ground "of use only" (maybe left out) They must see an ongoing increased risk of loss (ligation) in spite of BSA stated changes. This may to the tipping point for a lot of other groups decisions. As insurance companies tend to use the same processes to determine risk (costs)

John

[skeptic]

How much credence do insurance companies even have today?  They have far too much leverage and seem, in my view, likely to make decisions totally on monetary basis, and NOT on the reality of specific claims.  Insurance carriers cannot ever never have claims, and their reason for existence, in theory, is that life is fickle and things can happen without intent or due to life in general.  The lame excuse that it was, or is, an "act of God" is prominent in their response litany.  Another is using broad samples to apply to specifically focused issues, rather than any data from the actual location or situation.  Like in most large industries or corporations, they search for reasons to NOT give the very service for which they were sourced.  Of course, much of the issue is still on our own backs from the respective that too many feel it is always someone else's fault or why should I have to remedy possible liabilities?  Absolute safety is NOT possible, and no amount of written "rules" will totally stop poor decisions or the truly warped people of society.  Still, the basic Scouting tenets are a strong foundation if used as intended.

 

[JoeBob]

34 minutes ago, jcousino said:

They must see an ongoing increased risk of loss (ligation) in spite of BSA stated changes.

Have the first claims involving girls even entered the actuarial tables? 

[DeaconLance]

21 hours ago, TuckahoeJoe said:

I am COR and CC of two units at a Catholic parish in Harrisburg.  The parish will not renew in 2024.  Catholic Mutual recommended and the Harrisburg diocese accepted the two options of 1) charter with complete oversight or 2) disassociate if unable to provide complete oversight.  Catholic Mutual is the same insurance company that stipulated in the bankruptcy proceeding that it would promote scouting in Catholic entities through 2036.  

Catholic Mutual is also raising the premium of any parish that charters scouting units.  Unfortunately, these increased costs resulted in the decision.

 

 

 

I am COR for Pack/Troop dropped by a Roman Catholic parish and picked up by my Byzantine Catholic parish.  My pastor voluntarily not only paid the increase but asked for an additional 1 million in coverage.  We are not a large or wealthy parish so it can’t have cost all that much to do.  I think many pastors/bishops who disagree with BSA are using this liability/insurance cost as an excuse.  Note in this case the bishop did not say parishes couldn’t charter units.  The pastor decided he didn’t want to charter the units after we met with him to ask if the Pack could go co-Ed.