summer camp v. high adventure camp

[RainShine]

We have a troop of 20 Scouts, probably 15 are actually active. On any given outing, like the one this weekend, we'll have 8-12 guys. We will have, probably, 12 to 14 sign up for summer camp. We've never done a high adventure camp AFAIK. Like, never.

If we had a group of, say, 8 or so older guys, go off to high adventure camp, what would the other fellows do? I suppose they would go to regular summer camp. But wouldn't they feel abandoned? Or do we send all of them to high adventure? Some of those guys are 11 or 12yo, just fell off the turnip truck, never been to a Scout summer camp, just learning to pitch a tent. They're going off to Philmont?

I mean I could understand if we had a big troop, you just split them up in some way.  What do other small troops do about summer camp v. high adventure?

[qwazse]

I like how you are thinking. Don’t send 1st and 2nd year scouts on HA’s. Really and truly, you want your HA contingent to have first class skills and to be practicing them throughout the year. That includes teaching them to 1st years at summer camp.

In fact younger scouts see a good role model as older scouts prepare for HA. (E.g. you all are basically in the one-hike-a-month club until you go to Philmont.) 

So, the ideal solution is that your “elite 8” attend summer camp as well as the HA. Is there anything getting in the way of you doing that?

[yknot]

What we always did was involve them in the planning and preparations for HA trips if they wanted to be, especially any hiking or swimming, but otherwise they went to summer camp as normal. We tried to do summer camp in early July and HA trips end of July/early August because we had a few older scouts who wanted to do both. We generally did HA trips (Philmont, Sea Base) every other year although we did a lot of ad hoc HA type trips on our own. Years ago, the unit was large enough to do a full contingent to summer camp and a smaller, older group to do HA, generally with a mixed unit crew. More recently, the summer camp group has either been provisional or paired up with another unit to take a whole campsite. It works out, especially if the plan is that HA is something the younger scouts not only have to be prepared for but is also a privilege to be worked towards. Over the years, there have been a few kids who were really interested in HA from the get go and there was no shortage of opportunities to fall in with crews from other local units or farther afield. It's not an issue to have have two tracks in a unit.  

[HashTagScouts]

The BSA HA have age requirements for most of their adventures, so you do want to research that. Philmont, for example, your 11-12 year old scouts are not going on the treks with your 16 year old scouts, so be prepared for that. If the troop has never done an excursion, my first advice to you is start planning now for 2024, not 2023. You need to know you have solid commitment before you start trying to get into a Philmont lottery. Also, watch the "crew size" on the HA bases- those do generally also have to include two adults- so, if you thought about Out Island Adventure at Seabase, for example, crew size is 6-8 and that includes your two adults. Our troop is similar size, and they did their first official BSA HA trip in 2019 to Seabase. They will be doing another in 2023. If we were a bigger troop and had more older scouts to put us into a rhythm to go every other year, we'd support that, but at our size, it would basically kill the traditional summer camp experience. Our choice, we'd rather that the traditional summer camp experience take precedence, so the HA trips are August dates, summer camp is July. You may want to take a smaller step and just plan a 5-7 day trip of your own for just your older scouts. Depending on locale, try and see if a 2-3 day canoe or whitewater adventure, with a 2-3 day backpacking trip to a national forest is a possibility. If it creates an appetite, and gets the younger kids juices flowing after hearing the older kids talk about their experience, then you can start planning one of the HA base trips. There are also many camps around the US that allow for you to put younger scouts into a traditional summer camp program, while the older youth go into an adventure program that can involve a number of possibilities- multi-day backpacking/canoe/whitewater trips. It might work out for the longer term if you begin by building a "high adventure culture", versus just the one-every-five-years trip to a HA base.         

[fred8033]

Schedule separation between your high adventure and the routine summer camp.   Many scouts will want to do both.  Many will want to brag about their pending or completed adventure.  Our troop often did something like ...   June = High Adventure.  July = BSA Summer Camp.   August = Troop summer camp.

[sierracharliescouter]

We do both, and most of the scouts who do the HA activity also do summer camp. The younger scouts need at least a few of the older scouts to help them along through summer camp. 

[Eagledad]

For troops that want the benefits of scout growth from patrol method, summer camp gives the scouts the most growth of the year because of the intense outdoor program in the number of days forces scouts the habits of servant lifestyles. However, that growth requires older scouts to work along side the younger scouts. Young scouts learn by watching older scout mentors and older scout grow comes from mentoring (NOT Babysitting) the younger scouts. Troops with a program of older scout mentors working with younger scouts in a patrol method environment typically have a good attendance of older scouts to their summer camp. A common comment from parents after summer camp is the troop brought home a more mature son then the one that left for camp.

I say all that because summer camp should be a troop priority for scout growth and patrol unity. HA is also important for growth and opportunities, but should be secondary to the summer camp program.

One last comment; I encourage troops to push high adventure to their whole troop, not just the younger ones. I realigned my thinking when our 11 year old tenderfoot who had been racing bicycles for 3 years wasn't allowed to attend a biking HA trek. He knew more about bicycling than all the rest of the scouts added together and had more miles of riding than some adults have in cars. Of course physical and mental maturity are required for to match the activities, but, there are many activities 11 and 12 year old scouts can do. The idea that only older scouts should do HA is one reason the BSA program as a whole is struggling. Troops should be adventure programs, not First Class advancement programs. The last thing a 14 year old scout wants to do is repeat their first three years of pushing young scouts to advance. Older scouts enjoy teaching and mentoring young scouts in adventure.

Barry