Scout Executive Salary

[1980Scouter]

What is a fair SE salary? Many councils in my area pay 200k +/- plus benefits.  This is excessive when Scouting is in decline and councils are strapped for cash. 

I propose 75k and good benefits.  If you care about Scouting you will continue in your position. 

[mrjohns2]

34 minutes ago, 1980Scouter said:

If you care about Scouting you will continue in your position. 

I don’t know if it works that way. So, you are proposing they take a $125,000 pay cut to declare they care about Scouting?

You do know they don’t set their own pay, right?

[SiouxRanger]

15 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

You do know they don’t set their own pay, right?

Precisely who does set a SE's salary and benefits, if you know. I would truly love to hear some insight into the process-who has influence and especially the forces that control/regulate those salaries.

Our last SE had a touch over $200,000 in salary and $100,000 in benefits.  About 10% of the council budget.

Well a $125,000 pay cut is better than a 100% pay cut.

The SE in my council is grossly overpaid as "CEO" of a clearly failing organization.

I am convinced that there is little oversight over SE salaries. "Wink and a nod" metrics.

If our "Council Titanic" had a band, it would be playing with gusto (despite wet shins).

[Eagle94-A1]

8 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

Precisely who does set a SE's salary and benefits, if you know. I would truly love to hear some insight into the process-who has influence and especially the forces that control/regulate those salaries.

National has some pay scales for the various types of councils that local council executive boards approve.

[SiouxRanger]

43 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

National has some pay scales for the various types of councils that local council executive boards approve.

That has been my impression.

Sends the message" "Be Loyal to management and you'll have a chance at the ginormous salaries we earn."

There are no external, market-based controls to my knowledge.

 

[qwazse]

6 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

... There are no external, market-based controls to my knowledge. ...

Oh, how cute. Thinking that executives of organizations under collapse would get reduced pay.

On the contrary, expect executive salaries to increase as councils merge and more demands will be placed on a professional who could find better compensation doing less for more in the private sector.

[mrjohns2]

23 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

"Be Loyal to management and you'll have a chance at the ginormous salaries we earn."

The council executive board are all volunteers. They don’t have a chance at the salaries. I’m not clear what you are getting at. 
 

The volunteers vote on her salaries and budget. Not the pros. Now the pros maybe lobby, but it isn’t like they choose their own pay. 
 

You could talk to your council board if you really wanted those that vote on it to hear your concerns. Or you could post here. Or both. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by mrjohns2

[Sentinel947]

Compensation for executives should have components that are performance and incentive based. The challenge is creating those systems without incentivizing bad or fraudulent behavior. 

I'll say in a lot of areas $75k would not cut it. That's not even considered a living wage in big metros on the Coasts. (Which is why I don't live in those places.) Even in places without crazy costs of living, one can make close to, or significantly more than, $75k for much less responsibility and headache. 

Think about what a SE does. They are the leader of all of the councils employees, they typically have responsibility for working with the councils donors (unless your council's leadership has already ran them off.) They have responsibility for council property and assets. I peg SE's pay to what is similar to a Principal of a school on the small end, to maybe a Superintendent of a school district on the high end. My council claims to have around 20k Scouts registered. The School district I was in growing up has around 16k students and the Superintendent makes $169k. Another local school district has 35k students and the Superintendent makes $260k. Our SE made about $200k in 2000. Maybe a little overpaid relative to the Superintendent example, but not outrageously so. In 2016, our SE wasn't in the top 36 of Nonprofit CEO's in my metro area. (The list was only 36 organizations long) 

This is a topic that gets hashed out ad nauseum about non-profits: See 2013 article

Last thought. I used to work for a non-profit (not the BSA). I left for a private business and got a 23% increase in pay. Yea, I believed in the organization and the mission, and I was proud to work there, but satisfaction in the mission of my employer didn't pay my bills. 

TL;DR: 75k is too low to attract competent executives, skilled/talented people have bills to pay too and don't work for cheap. At least in my local area our SE seems to be paid relatively sanely to their non profit peers. 

[SiouxRanger]

44 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

I’m not clear what you are getting at.

Sorry-mea culpa.

My perception is that National largely dictates SE salaries, and the Executive Committee (the small subcommittee of the Executive Board, and perhaps even only the Council President have any say in the matter, our perhaps even only knowledge, the salary having been set as a fait accompli.  And even if they do, why would they exercise any control?  The Council President, or Executive Committee are not paying the SE's salary.  And, besides, even if a high salary, the person getting paid that high salary has to raise the funds to do it.  "What Me Worry?" -Alfred E. Neuman.

I have served on my council's executive board for years, and the issue of salaries for the SE or anyone on staff was never raised.

So, we know staff are being paid, but who sets the salaries? Particularly of the SE? (As they are so high.)

Some mechanism is in place to set them.  BSA is not the local ice cream shack, and therefore it is highly unlikely that the process is ad hoc, so there is likely a formal procedure.

And that is what I am looking to learn.

 

[SiouxRanger]

35 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

TL;DR: 75k is too low to attract competent executives, skilled/talented people have bills to pay too and don't work for cheap. At least in my local area our SE seems to be paid relatively sanely to their non profit peers. 

This is perhaps only apocryphal, but back in 1998 or so, I heard that the top position at the Salvation Army, nationally, and his executive assistant, were paid $89,000 between them.  Perhaps someone has knowledge of that.  At that time, my recollection is that Jere Ratcliffe, Chief Scout Executive was paid $363,000 (not sure if benefits were included in that).

I am just left with the impression that top BSA executives are highly paid for not for profits, and if folks have evidence that this is not the case, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks.

[SiouxRanger]

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

Oh, how cute. Thinking that executives of organizations under collapse would get reduced pay.

Sorry (and I note that my membership here only allows for three apologies a month so just one left for all the rest of you "pilers-on").

In my council, SE salaries seem to be a topic "off the books." For decades.

My current working theory is that no one wants to admit just how much the SE makes, as parents, most of whom make MUCH LESS will revolt. Especially given how much fees have increased.

And though Scouting is far from the most expensive extracurricular activity a child can engage in, its expense grows as a parent's scout need a backpack, hiking boots., backpacking tent, etc.

Sorry that my last series of posts are a bit scattered, but these are my impressions over the last 26± years. (I've tried not to make argument, just impressions.)

I'd note from all my readings of posts hereon, the practices of other councils and experiences of other scouters like me, vary widely. 

So, I truly solicit comments to my posts. Without shared knowledge Scouting will not return to the volunteers.

 

[SiouxRanger]

1 hour ago, Sentinel947 said:

Compensation for executives should have components

I agree entirely.

My experience is that the ideal of "should have" has been replaced by "this is what we do…"

Meaning that the "fix is in…"

[mrjohns2]

36 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

I have served on my council's executive board for years, and the issue of salaries for the SE or anyone on staff was never raised.

So, we know staff are being paid, but who sets the salaries? Particularly of the SE? (As they are so high.)

I have not been on a council board or executive committee. It is sad that it wasn’t an annual closed door discussion amongst the board. When I served on our church board for 3-4 years, it was an annual discussion. First amongst the board and then with the minister. Yes, our central church had ranges, but those were guidelines. We had full congregational control. We couldn’t hit the low end most of the time, so it was a hard spot to be in as a board. I have assumed (maybe wrongly) that this is how council boards operate. 
 

I know that churches that were on (or off) the low end had a harder time attracting ANY candidates, but NEVER the leading candidates unless they were returning to their home area to be close to elderly parents. 

[mrjohns2]

6 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

In my council, SE salaries seem to be a topic "off the books." For decades.

My current working theory is that no one wants to admit just how much the SE makes, as parents, most of whom make MUCH LESS will revolt. Especially given how much fees have increased.

The salary is in the filings. Do you mean it just wasn’t talked about? Again, sad. There is enough money there with $200,000 to have at least some “at risk” based on criteria. 

[Jameson76]

You can find the 990 form for your council.  For my council latest one I could locate was 2019

Revenue - $14.3 M.  These top 6 staff (less than 10% of the total staff) account for $1.594MM in costs or 11% of the budget.  SE pay is not in fact a misprint

• SE / CEO
  • Reportable compensation - $459K
  • Other compensation - $159K
  • Total - $618K
• Deputy SE
  • Reportable compensation - $189K
  • Other compensation - $70K
  • Total - $259K
• Director of Development
  • Reportable compensation - $155K
  • Other compensation - $38K
  • Total - $193K
• Director of Field Service
  • Reportable compensation - $151K
  • Other compensation - $33K
  • Total - $184K
• Director of Field Service (another one)
  • Reportable compensation - $146K
  • Other compensation - $30K
  • Total - $176K
• Director of Accounting
  • Reportable compensation - $101K
  • Other compensation - $63K
  • Total - $164K