Hello all! I have questions about Charter/Pack relationships, Pack Funding

[Icheeka]

Hello and good evening!

 

My name is Kiki and I am the Pack Committee Chair for a newly formed cubscout pack.

I have experience as an adult leader in scouting from 2011-2014, but I was only the membership coordinator, and Webelos Den Leader. And I overthink everything.

Our local American Legion has agreed to charter us, agree to pay the chartering fee, and offer a kickstart to get us started. The Pack Committee has decided on an ask for $2000 since we're starting from essentially nothing.

We are behind 'budget' by about $300 by the time November rolls around, if that information is important. 

My questions are:

1. Is $2000 too much of an ask? We have missed the popcorn season which is why it's so high. We have 10 registered kiddos and 8 registered adults right now, but estimate another 8 joining us. 

2. I would like to provide a detailed 'ask', a proposal of sorts to outline what we need, what we would like, and what the cost breakdown would be. Is there an appropriate template for this?

These are my current questions for now, thank you for your time if you're reading this, and happy scouting!

[MattR]

Welcome to the forum, @Icheeka.

I agree that just asking for $2000 is not a great idea. A budget is a great idea. Unfortunately I can't be of much help there. My guess is there are plenty of other cub leaders that can give you ideas of where to start.

 

[fred8033]

Welcome

• A charter org willing to financially support a cub pack is a very rare thing.  For any and every check you get, be very, very thankful.  
• Budgeting is a great idea.  I always used my own spreadsheet.  Find an existing template to start.
  • https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/510-278_wb.pdf
  • https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/xls/13-273.xls ... excel spreadsheet version
  • https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2017/04/05/create-budget-pack-troop-crew/ ... good article
  • Google.  You will find lots of great examples
  • Plan to have some carry over money to keep the pack going.  For example, never drop checking below XXXX ($500??)
  • Per-scout or per-family charge for some items (camps, special activities, special awards).
  • It's okay to not buy or do everything.  Example - Pack doesn't have to buy the cub books or scarfs or belt loops.  Maybe pack pays for key awards, but not the extras.  
  • Ten years ago, our pack would spend somewhere between $180 and $250 per scout per year (spreading all costs including adult registration costs) ... BUT that was before registration prices increased.  Our spend changed depending on how much we raised.   Idea was we spent funds raised on the current scouts with enough preserved to keep the pack an on-going concern.  We charged $60 or more and raised the rest.  
  • BE THRIFTY.  Look for free events.  Look for cost savings.  Pot-luck events.  Cheap spaces to use.  
  • I wanted to ask about $300 behind ... but $300 is a small amount these days.  
• Questions
  • Is your COR offering a one-time additional funding?  Or on-going support?
  • Have your families donated to help the pack?   (my opinion) It's important to have the families have some amount of financial skin in the game.
  • Do your leaders help support their own registration?  ...  Some units have the unit pay for the key, key roles.  But additional registrations are paid by the adults.  ... This concept may have changed as BSA registration expectations have changed. 
  • Have you considered fundraising other than popcorn?  Wreaths are probably too late.  Christmas candy?  Other?  

I'm often wondering about costs these days.  In the past, we could easily spread the cost of 10 registered leaders across 50 or 60 cubs; especially as adult registration cost was cheap; $7 to $10 to $14 to $24 per adult.   But adult registration cost was cheap and few adults were needed.  Now, it feels like 50% of the adults would have to be registered and cost is $66 or more per adult.  BSA membership now feels financially prohibitive.  

Interesting breakdown ... https://scoutsmarts.com/scouting-costs-registration-gear-uniforms-fees/

Edited October 14, 2022 by fred8033

[Icheeka]

On 10/13/2022 at 11:18 PM, MattR said:

Welcome to the forum, @Icheeka.

I agree that just asking for $2000 is not a great idea. A budget is a great idea. Unfortunately I can't be of much help there. My guess is there are plenty of other cub leaders that can give you ideas of where to start.

 

Thank you!

23 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Welcome

• A charter org willing to financially support a cub pack is a very rare thing.  For any and every check you get, be very, very thankful.  
• Budgeting is a great idea.  I always used my own spreadsheet.  Find an existing template to start.
  • https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/510-278_wb.pdf
  • https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/xls/13-273.xls ... excel spreadsheet version
  • https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2017/04/05/create-budget-pack-troop-crew/ ... good article
  • Google.  You will find lots of great examples
  • Plan to have some carry over money to keep the pack going.  For example, never drop checking below XXXX ($500??)
  • Per-scout or per-family charge for some items (camps, special activities, special awards).
  • It's okay to not buy or do everything.  Example - Pack doesn't have to buy the cub books or scarfs or belt loops.  Maybe pack pays for key awards, but not the extras.  
  • Ten years ago, our pack would spend somewhere between $180 and $250 per scout per year (spreading all costs including adult registration costs) ... BUT that was before registration prices increased.  Our spend changed depending on how much we raised.   Idea was we spent funds raised on the current scouts with enough preserved to keep the pack an on-going concern.  We charged $60 or more and raised the rest.  
  • BE THRIFTY.  Look for free events.  Look for cost savings.  Pot-luck events.  Cheap spaces to use.  
  • I wanted to ask about $300 behind ... but $300 is a small amount these days.  
• Questions
  • Is your COR offering a one-time additional funding?  Or on-going support?
  • Have your families donated to help the pack?   (my opinion) It's important to have the families have some amount of financial skin in the game.
  • Do your leaders help support their own registration?  ...  Some units have the unit pay for the key, key roles.  But additional registrations are paid by the adults.  ... This concept may have changed as BSA registration expectations have changed. 
  • Have you considered fundraising other than popcorn?  Wreaths are probably too late.  Christmas candy?  Other?  

I'm often wondering about costs these days.  In the past, we could easily spread the cost of 10 registered leaders across 50 or 60 cubs; especially as adult registration cost was cheap; $7 to $10 to $14 to $24 per adult.   But adult registration cost was cheap and few adults were needed.  Now, it feels like 50% of the adults would have to be registered and cost is $66 or more per adult.  BSA membership now feels financially prohibitive.  

Interesting breakdown ... https://scoutsmarts.com/scouting-costs-registration-gear-uniforms-fees/

Thank you so much for this info, wow! Such a big help! As for your questions, I do not have solid answers.

 

-I think the charter is offering a one time funding.

-Our town is not financially well off, so a lot of scouts are on registered assistance. We're about to bring up the discussion of class A's with the families at the next pack meeting.

-I'm sorry, I don't understand the leader support question. Can you reword this for me? If you mean registered adults with their scouts....we have it so each scout pays $200 and that also covers their parent.

-We just talked about wreaths last night, I didn't know it was too late! Darn it! It'll have to be candy, and I will be asking the legion to partner with us for a pancake breakfast as well. I suggested Christmas tree disposal but since the kids are so young that was thrown out.

 

Honestly, after looking at all of the breakdowns I'm sure this is why the pack folded in the first place. But if we can really get a great fundraising team, I'm sure we'll succeed!

-

Edited October 15, 2022 by Icheeka

[yknot]

11 hours ago, Icheeka said:

Thank you!

Thank you so much for this info, wow! Such a big help! As for your questions, I do not have solid answers.

 

-I think the charter is offering a one time funding.

-Our town is not financially well off, so a lot of scouts are on registered assistance. We're about to bring up the discussion of class A's with the families at the next pack meeting.

-I'm sorry, I don't understand the leader support question. Can you reword this for me? If you mean registered adults with their scouts....we have it so each scout pays $200 and that also covers their parent.

-We just talked about wreaths last night, I didn't know it was too late! Darn it! It'll have to be candy, and I will be asking the legion to partner with us for a pancake breakfast as well. I suggested Christmas tree disposal but since the kids are so young that was thrown out.

 

Honestly, after looking at all of the breakdowns I'm sure this is why the pack folded in the first place. But if we can really get a great fundraising team, I'm sure we'll succeed!

-

A number of units have chartered with American Legions this year and have reported a similar process: The AL pays to get them started for one year but that's it. 

If money is a hardship for your families they do not need class As. Many cash strapped packs will just use a class B t shirt or a neckerchief, etc.  You can always switch to class As later if your fundraising kicks in. A uniform is not required and should not be a barrier to scouting for any child. 

It's not too late for wreaths if you have a local supplier. If you can find a local garden center or nursery to work with you, you could still do it. One of our local farm stands sold us wreaths at wholesale one year. We got various donations of bows and did pretty well. I seem to remember it all got organized last minute in October with sales in early to mid November. 

[Icheeka]

9 hours ago, yknot said:

A number of units have chartered with American Legions this year and have reported a similar process: The AL pays to get them started for one year but that's it. 

If money is a hardship for your families they do not need class As. Many cash strapped packs will just use a class B t shirt or a neckerchief, etc.  You can always switch to class As later if your fundraising kicks in. A uniform is not required and should not be a barrier to scouting for any child. 

It's not too late for wreaths if you have a local supplier. If you can find a local garden center or nursery to work with you, you could still do it. One of our local farm stands sold us wreaths at wholesale one year. We got various donations of bows and did pretty well. I seem to remember it all got organized last minute in October with sales in early to mid November. 

Thank you for this info! I truly appreciate it! I’ll get right on the wreaths to see if we can swing it. 

[fred8033]

On 10/15/2022 at 10:29 AM, yknot said:

It's not too late for wreaths if you have a local supplier. If you can find a local garden center or nursery to work with you, you could still do it. One of our local farm stands sold us wreaths at wholesale one year. We got various donations of bows and did pretty well. I seem to remember it all got organized last minute in October with sales in early to mid November. 

Strictly speaking, no it's not too late.  ... depending on vendor ... To do it well, it needs planning in August/September.  Pack hands out sales materials before October 1st.  Scouts selling in October.  Order placed with vendor around Oct 31st to Nov 5th; delivery just after thanksgiving.  

BUT ... maybe you can find a vendor with a great on-line sales site.  THEN, your pack can advertise via Facebook, twitter, emails, etc and people order directly from the site and your pack gets a cut.  I've seen that happen recently too.  

So, it might not be too late, but it's a razors edge close to too late.

Wishing you the best.