5thGenTexan Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 we bought a trailer from a Troop that folded a couple of years ago. Its pretty much been sitting at my house while I work on it. We may or may not have taken it to summer camp with expired plates. I finally got the bill of sale from the previous Troop and went in to get the registration changed over. I had to leave because they needed proof I was really affiliated with the BSA. I was like, its hard enough to get real volunteers, why would someone falsely state they are affiliated in some way? 🤪 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 28 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said: we bought a trailer from a Troop that folded a couple of years ago. Its pretty much been sitting at my house while I work on it. We may or may not have taken it to summer camp with expired plates. I finally got the bill of sale from the previous Troop and went in to get the registration changed over. I had to leave because they needed proof I was really affiliated with the BSA. I was like, its hard enough to get real volunteers, why would someone falsely state they are affiliated in some way? 🤪 So you couldn't tie a sheepshank either? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcousino Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 This again goes to the ides how could you technically buy a troop trailer from a defuncted troop the trailer was owned by old CO's or the councils at that time as the troop cannot own assets out right. Thats my understanding, So a member of your CO should be the one who is registration for the trailer to the CO. PS who did you send the money to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clivusmultrum Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 We had our trailer stollen. I doubt the thieves are worried about registering it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5thGenTexan Posted October 12, 2022 Author Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) 36 minutes ago, jcousino said: This again goes to the ides how could you technically buy a troop trailer from a defuncted troop the trailer was owned by old CO's or the councils at that time as the troop cannot own assets out right. Thats my understanding, So a member of your CO should be the one who is registration for the trailer to the CO. PS who did you send the money to. Yeah,. Well, our CO is a Methodist Church and obviously changing to a new CO later this year and we are leaving this weekend to camp in another state, so I dont have time for all that. A parent paid for the trailer and all the gear in and it lives at my house. So as far as I can tell at the moment, I few of the adults own a trailer and some other stuff we let the Troop use. Which money are you referring to? Edited October 12, 2022 by 5thGenTexan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcousino Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 You had said that they had bought the trailer for the defunct troop who covers the trailer if it involved in a crash church or the member? if the parent leaves, does he take the equipment with him. Not try to be difficult here just pointing out the possible land mines here as to the true ownership here. I will let the real lawyers here explain possible problem with risk and ownership and third part use. I would doubt that any formal paperwork was exchanged 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5thGenTexan Posted October 13, 2022 Author Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, jcousino said: You had said that they had bought the trailer for the defunct troop who covers the trailer if it involved in a crash church or the member? if the parent leaves, does he take the equipment with him. Not try to be difficult here just pointing out the possible land mines here as to the true ownership here. I will let the real lawyers here explain possible problem with risk and ownership and third part use. I would doubt that any formal paperwork was exchanged At least in Texas the insurance of the tow vehicle extends to the trailer in the event of an accident. So, whoever is towing is on the hook. The adult that found and purchased the trailer has been with the boy troop for years, their Scouts have earned Eagle awhile ago. It was bought and donated for the used of the girl troop. I do have a bill of sale that was signed by both parties and appears to be about as official as you can get and it was provided to the tag office today when I registered it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said: At least in Texas the insurance of the tow vehicle extends to the trailer in the event of an accident. So, whoever is towing is on the hook. The adult that found and purchased the trailer has been with the boy troop for years, their Scouts have earned Eagle awhile ago. It was bought and donated for the used of the girl troop. I do have a bill of sale that was signed by both parties and appears to be about as official as you can get and it was provided to the tag office today when I registered it. I have been down this road many times... (pun intended?) 1. Yes, the driver's insurance covers for accidents for towing. However, the insurance company will only pay damages to the trailer to the titled owner!! And they will want a copy of the title (especially if the trailer is a total loss, since they take possession in that case.) 2. From your posts, the old Troop (or their old COR) is still technically the owner. You have a bill of sale, and that is awesome. Scan it and keep a digital copy 😜 Continue pursuing the correct and current titling/registration/plates. Please don't use it again until done. A Scout is Obedient! Set the example and obey the law. 3. This whole thing comes down to taxes. In whose name were you trying to title/register the trailer? Unless your Troop is separately incorporated as a 501 C(3), they should not be on the title or registration. It should be your COR. For you in the UMC world of CORs, this could be a sticky wicket. In a nutshell, only a legal entity can own property. That is, only a person or corporation... If you were trying to register the title in the name of a corporation, then the state usually asks for a letter from that corporation designating the person appearing to act as an agent of that corporation for the purposes of the transaction. If you are registering the trailer under a private name (which I recommend you not do), then you'll most likely pay taxes (taxes and fees for vehicle title transfers vary state to state.) If you register it under the name of a 501 c (3) (at least in our state) then taxes will be waived. Here in this state, you must have said letter of designation. YMMV. Happy to provide the text of a letter for a template, if you'd like. Postscript: Our Troop uses three trailers. One canoe trailer and two gear trailers. All three are registered to our COR. We pay upkeep and maintenance, but they belong to our COR. That way, if the Troop should fold, the COR can keep the trailers for a future unit that may arise form the ashes. COR holds the titles, and receives the registration renewal notices, which they forward to us to remit. This tenet is always true: the COR owns all vehicles/monies/gear, but signs an agreement with the council (the Annual Charter Agreement) that all this will be used for the purposes of Scouting. "Be a good steward of unit resources and adhere to BSA Fiscal Policies. ie. Unit Money Earning projects" https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Fiscal_Policies_and_Procedures_for_BSA_Units_20220404.pdf See Dissolution of Unit section Edited October 13, 2022 by InquisitiveScouter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcousino Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 t least in Texas the insurance of the tow vehicle extends to the trailer in the event of an accident. So, whoever is towing is on the hook. Back again when we did tour permits and there were some checks on Insurnace and drivers , when was the last time you asked for license status and enforce insurance when taking a scout trip with or without a trailer. This whole risk area now would transfer back to CO to foot the bill one of reasons tour permits were transferred to the units to carry out so the council could claim no direct responsibility. Most CO and unit have no good idea of the risk when sponsoring an event. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5thGenTexan Posted October 13, 2022 Author Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said: I have been down this road many times... (pun intended?) 1. Yes, the driver's insurance covers for accidents for towing. However, the insurance company will only pay damages to the trailer to the titled owner!! And they will want a copy of the title (especially if the trailer is a total loss, since they take possession in that case.) 2. From your posts, the old Troop (or their old COR) is still technically the owner. You have a bill of sale, and that is awesome. Scan it and keep a digital copy 😜 Continue pursuing the correct and current titling/registration/plates. Please don't use it again until done. A Scout is Obedient! Set the example and obey the law. 3. This whole thing comes down to taxes. In whose name were you trying to title/register the trailer? Unless your Troop is separately incorporated as a 501 C(3), they should not be on the title or registration. It should be your COR. For you in the UMC world of CORs, this could be a sticky wicket. In a nutshell, only a legal entity can own property. That is, only a person or corporation... If you were trying to register the title in the name of a corporation, then the state usually asks for a letter from that corporation designating the person appearing to act as an agent of that corporation for the purposes of the transaction. If you are registering the trailer under a private name (which I recommend you not do), then you'll most likely pay taxes (taxes and fees for vehicle title transfers vary state to state.) If you register it under the name of a 501 c (3) (at least in our state) then taxes will be waived. Here in this state, you must have said letter of designation. YMMV. Happy to provide the text of a letter for a template, if you'd like. Postscript: Our Troop uses three trailers. One canoe trailer and two gear trailers. All three are registered to our COR. We pay upkeep and maintenance, but they belong to our COR. That way, if the Troop should fold, the COR can keep the trailers for a future unit that may arise form the ashes. COR holds the titles, and receives the registration renewal notices, which they forward to us to remit. This tenet is always true: the COR owns all vehicles/monies/gear, but signs an agreement with the council (the Annual Charter Agreement) that all this will be used for the purposes of Scouting. "Be a good steward of unit resources and adhere to BSA Fiscal Policies. ie. Unit Money Earning projects" https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Fiscal_Policies_and_Procedures_for_BSA_Units_20220404.pdf See Dissolution of Unit section In the state of Texas, trailers of this size and GVWR are not titled at all. The registration is just changed from one owner to the next. I have it registered and current tags. I am as legal as I can be in that regard. Edited October 13, 2022 by 5thGenTexan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 14 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said: In the state of Texas, trailers of this size and GVWR are not titled at all. The registration is just changed from one owner to the next. I have it registered and current tags. I am as legal as I can be in that regard. So, in the end, how did you show you were affiliated with the BSA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5thGenTexan Posted October 14, 2022 Author Share Posted October 14, 2022 46 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said: So, in the end, how did you show you were affiliated with the BSA? Printed off my ID card that has my name and shows I am a Committee Chair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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