Pack Overnighter Site Appraisal Form

[tc79]

Hi Scouters!

Have a tough situation for you and hope one of you can shed some more light on the situation.

 

We have a large Pack, roughly 55 Scouts.  (What a great problem to have!)  Our Council does not have a great Pack overnighter location for us.  We've historically made do with the closest one, about 40 minutes away.  It has some MAJOR drawbacks: totally unstaffed, no trash service, drinking water only from an industrial type sink near the flush toilets that work sometimes, and a run-down un heated lodge that maybe holds 50 people.  We have to bring EVERYTHING when we go (and pack out the trash) and program the entire trip.  The Scouts have a blast, but it's exhausting.  It also has a capacity of 100, which automatically makes us too large to fit with a parent for each Scout.

 

We're trying to find a new site that can accommodate more people, but in reviewing the Pack Overnight Campout Site Appraisal Form (vers. 2018) this campground I've just described doesn't meet 4 of the 10 criteria.  I know units "aren't allowed" to review sites on their own, but is there a maximum number of "hits" a site can take before it's not approved?  Is that up to each Council to decide or is there some sort of standard?

 

We're so excited to have grown our Pack but it's making any sort of camping trip really challenging.  Our next best bet is almost 2 hours away and no longer allows campfires (we're in the Mountain west and prone to wildfire) which is a major disappointment to the Scouts.  Looking forward to your suggestions!  Thanks!

 

- T. 

[RememberSchiff]

@tc79 welcome to scouter.com

[Eagle94-A1]

My council has NEVER (emphasis) had an approved Cub Scout camp ground list. Closest thing we have would be the the Order of the Arrow's Where to Go Camping guide. That is what many packs in my area use. Good luck

Edited September 30, 2022 by Eagle94-A1

[mrjohns2]

4 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

My council has NEVER (emphasis) had an approved Cub Scout camp ground list.

Same here. Our council is pretty good, but was surprised to see my BIL’s council list. Number 1, they had one, and 2, it was a long and great list. 

[curious_scouter]

Here there are also limited options for pack overnighters.  We are fortunate though that the council camp is open for packs and checks all the boxes and there is also an Elks sponsored youth camp - they have more facilities for cabin campers, but a very nice open area with a bathhouse that makes it suitable for our Packs. 

Most state parks also meet the bill and many have group camping (here).

There is a small cost to most of those options, but even the highest (Elks) is like $2-5 a night.

Hope you find a spot, I was on committee when our Pack was around 100 scouts, it was a definite mixed blessing.  Lots of helping hands, but we pressed the limits of meeting space and camping spots hard.  Even pinewood derby had to have really, really good planning to not turn into an all-day affair.  Starts to feel more like running a business than a pack at some point

[yknot]

On 9/30/2022 at 1:29 PM, tc79 said:

Hi Scouters!

Have a tough situation for you and hope one of you can shed some more light on the situation.

 

We have a large Pack, roughly 55 Scouts.  (What a great problem to have!)  Our Council does not have a great Pack overnighter location for us.  We've historically made do with the closest one, about 40 minutes away.  It has some MAJOR drawbacks: totally unstaffed, no trash service, drinking water only from an industrial type sink near the flush toilets that work sometimes, and a run-down un heated lodge that maybe holds 50 people.  We have to bring EVERYTHING when we go (and pack out the trash) and program the entire trip.  The Scouts have a blast, but it's exhausting.  It also has a capacity of 100, which automatically makes us too large to fit with a parent for each Scout.

 

We're trying to find a new site that can accommodate more people, but in reviewing the Pack Overnight Campout Site Appraisal Form (vers. 2018) this campground I've just described doesn't meet 4 of the 10 criteria.  I know units "aren't allowed" to review sites on their own, but is there a maximum number of "hits" a site can take before it's not approved?  Is that up to each Council to decide or is there some sort of standard?

- T. 

Councils can interpret that form differently and may have different viewpoints on what is safe. I was CC for a large pack and on the committee for a large troop. One of my interests over the years was to identify and develop potential local camping sites and obtain COIs and fire permits for their usage as we wanted more options. Our municipality had already worked with us to develop a site that had a fire ring, non potable water source, and access to porta johns. I was able to secure two other municipal campsites and installing a campfire ring in one became an Eagle project. I was able to develop relationships with several nearby private camps, some commercial, some church connected, for free off season camping often in exchange for an hour or two of service work. Similar arrangements with some nearby, private nature centers/preserves/land trusts and some large landowners. Some research found more sites in other local municipal, county, and state parks as well as historical sites that allowed overnight camping in old barracks and soldier huts and on a farm that raised produce for food pantries. As far as trash, most everyone around here prefers pack in/out because of bears for safety. A non potable water source like a pond was required for the camp fire, but an available water source for people was often jugs brought in by the unit. Permanent bathrooms and structures are nice but not essential especially if you are local. Bad weather you just get in the car and go home. Port a johns work. Councils differ but for the couple I worked with here if there was a sensible plan and/or procedures to deal with something, a wide variety of sites were and still are acceptable. Good luck. 

[qwazse]

Hi @tc79. Welcome to the forums.

Contact your district executive regarding this. Other packs must have encountered the same problem, and it would be a good round table topic.

[scoutldr]

Your District Camping Committee is responsible for approving Cub Scout camp venues.  And I have NEVER seen one that has trash service.  Pack it in, pack it out is a rule they need to get used to.  Welcome to our campfire!