Executive Board Meetings

[Christi13]

Again the questions were:

Who is allowed to attend the Executive Board meetings for a council?

Can I as an Assistant Scoutmaster, OA Chapter Advisor,  District Committee member, and Unit Commissioner sit in and listen to an Executive Board meeting? Yes or No? 

 Would I be able to look at past meeting minutes? Yes or N 

 Would I be able to request looking at those minutes? Yes or No? 

Is the Scouting program to be transparent in their work? Yes or No? 

Is the Council expected to be transparent in their work? Yes or No? 

Thanks 

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, Christi13 said:

Again the questions were:

Who is allowed to attend the Executive Board meetings for a council?

Can I as an Assistant Scoutmaster, OA Chapter Advisor,  District Committee member, and Unit Commissioner sit in and listen to an Executive Board meeting? Yes or No? 

 Would I be able to look at past meeting minutes? Yes or N 

 Would I be able to request looking at those minutes? Yes or No? 

Is the Scouting program to be transparent in their work? Yes or No? 

Is the Council expected to be transparent in their work? Yes or No? 

Thanks 

1.  Who is allowed?  It depends on what's on the agenda.  Some meetings are open (you may attend), some meeting are closed (you may not.)  It varies by council as to whom will decide which it is.  If all of yours are closed, it's a shame.  These meetings should be on your council calendar.  Call your District Key 3 and ask if you may attend.  (Yes, start at a low level to gauge what the reception to your questions will be, and the volunteers may have some knowledge about your specific council.)  Be prepare to answer the question "Why do you want to attend?"

2.  Can I as ASM, OA,...? See above.

3.  Past meeting minutes?  Varies by council.  And, if the meeting was closed, No.  Google is your friend... here are some examples

https://www.mississippivalleybsa.org/about-us/our-executive-board/

https://scoutingevent.com/Download/50968661/OR/Minutes__Council_Executive_Board_September_2020.pdf

4.  Can you request the minutes?  Sure, but the answer may be No.  Start with your District Key 3. (I recommend your District Commissioner, then District Chair, then DE.  They will help you "take the temperature" of the council and see if your inquiries will be welcomed or viewed with disdain.  Start treading carefully...

5.  Program Transparency?  Supposed to be, yes.  But there are times and instances where issues must be discussed behind closed doors to preserve anonymity of youth, privacy, etc.

6.  Council Transparency?  Same as above.

You may find some of this helpful:

https://www.scouting.org/council-support/cebo/

The "View" video links are inop, but you can download and view on your computer.  Expect vanilla and pie in the sky.  There is a difference between the ideal and reality 😜

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by InquisitiveScouter

[SiouxRanger]

Again the questions were:

(Speaking regarding the practices of my council.)

Who is allowed to attend the Executive Board meetings for a council? 

Typically, only the members of the Executive Board, Scout Executive, other senior professional staff as directed by the SE, invited guests, and administrative professional staff.

Can I as an Assistant Scoutmaster, OA Chapter Advisor,  District Committee member, and Unit Commissioner sit in and listen to an Executive Board meeting? Yes or No? 

Typically, No, though you could ask.  Try the Board President, or Scout Executive. 

Note, however, that both are aware of "program-focused activists" who may be looking for a basis to disrupt Executive Board functions. Professional-volunteer relations have had a rocky relationship from time-to-time in various councils.

 Would I be able to look at past meeting minutes? Yes or N 

Typically, No, though you could ask.  Try the Board President, or Scout Executive.

As a practical matter, meeting minutes can range from nearly nonexistent to highly detailed, depending on the council and who is taking the minutes.  I have seen significant financial transactions in council financial statements that were never mentioned in the minutes.

Note, that councils have both an Executive Board (the larger body) and an Executive Committee of the Executive Board (the smaller body) comprised of the officers of the Executive Board, such as Vice President of Facilities, VP of Marketing, VP of Fundraising/Development, etc.  So, there may be TWO sets of minutes in existence.  Further, I have seen council By-Laws which permit the Executive Committee to make all decisions the Executive Board  could make, EXCEPT a decision which countermands an Executive Board action. therefore, the Executive Committee could take a significant action that the Executive Board learns of only after-the-fact, if at all.  Executive Committee minutes may well contain reference to more significant council matters than Executive Board minutes.

In my council, at least in the past, Executive Board meetings are typically a dinner event and only held quarterly.  Executive Committee meetings are meetings and typically held monthly.  By that alone, one can see where the power lies.

My impression is that Scout Executives' opinions are given great deference as they are the "professional."  (What does mere me know about running a scout council?)

 Would I be able to request looking at those minutes? Yes or No? 

Discussed above.

Is the Scouting program to be transparent in their work? Yes or No? 

Yes.  The volunteers think so.  It is their money, time and labor which largely delivers the program to youth. It is the volunteers' children, in the volunteers' hometowns...The typical Scout Executive is a visitor for a certain number of years as they work on their careers. 

No. The Scout Executives have a difficult position. (Again-my council experience.) They are well-paid and as money always seems to be short, surely want to make sure they are paid.  There has been a decades-long tension over the use of money for program and camp maintenance. I do not expect that ever to change. Any volunteer efforts to usurp the Scout Executive's prerogative to control the purse is almost certainly to be countered in some fashion. In the past, in my council, the financial statements were worthless from a volunteer perspective as far as planning an event, and evaluating the event. (Cub Day Camp, for example: Did we make money, lose money, should we change things next year, add more activities which cost more, or cut back? That information is not made available to volunteers.) Council financial statements do not appear to be in compliance with GAAP.  (Perhaps an accountant can chime in on this issue.) Why such obfuscation of the council's financial performance? 

I have never seen the Scout Executive's compensation indicated in any council document.  It is available in the Federal Form 990 Return of Organization Exempt from Income Tax.

Is the Council expected to be transparent in their work? Yes or No? 

See discussion above.

I'd note that the practices and attitudes in other councils may be different than what I have observed.

[SiouxRanger]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

4.  Can you request the minutes?  Sure, but the answer may be No.  Start with your District Key 3. (I recommend your District Commissioner, then District Chair, then DE.  They will help you "take the temperature" of the council and see if your inquiries will be welcomed or viewed with disdain.  Start treading carefully...

I personally would not start at the District level as the volunteers at the District level have little connection with Council level matters as part of their official duties as District officers.  The DE might be able to obtain a copy for you, but most DE's I've dealt with are not interested in any task that puts them on the radar of senior professionals that might reflect poorly on their jobs. And, such a request puts junior staff in a difficult position.

"Disdain."  I have heard directly from a second in command professional who asked for a head count at cub day camps and was met with the question, "Who wants to know, and for what purpose?"

Smells like "transparency" to me.

On the other hand, you may be able to find a volunteer so positioned that they have access to or possession of some or all of the records you seek.  None of those records were ever given to me as an Executive Board member "n confidence."

In my state, not-for-profit corporations have a statutory duty to make records available to certain individuals.  Maybe so in your state.  Invoking a state law to examine council records will almost certainly trigger a response.

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

These meetings should be on your council calendar.

In my council neither Executive Board, nor Executive Committee meetings are shown for at least a year out. Strange. Though, only one district has any events scheduled, but only as placeholders, that is, there is no description of what is to happen at that time. Nothing scheduled for the other districts. Sloppy and lax.

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

2 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

I personally would not start at the District level as the volunteers at the District level have little connection with Council level matters as part of their official duties as District officers.  The DE might be able to obtain a copy for you, but most DE's I've dealt with are not interested in any task that puts them on the radar of senior professionals that might reflect poorly on their jobs. And, such a request puts junior staff in a difficult position.

The advice was more to obtain a warning for the OP'er if they don't have a good sense of the culture in their council before starting to ask these questions.  Hopefully, your District guys (talk to volunteers first) have been around a while, and can give you a good sense of how the council operates and treats them.  Their input and experiences will be a good indicator... concur that they won't necessarily be close to council ops, but the Chair or Commissioner may wear other hats in the council that do give them better insight.

[SiouxRanger]

55 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

The advice was more to obtain a warning for the OP'er if they don't have a good sense of the culture in their council before starting to ask these questions.  Hopefully, your District guys (talk to volunteers first) have been around a while, and can give you a good sense of how the council operates and treats them.  Their input and experiences will be a good indicator... concur that they won't necessarily be close to council ops, but the Chair or Commissioner may wear other hats in the council that do give them better insight.

I agree. Good advice.

[Mrjeff]

Wow, the Council Executive Board members don't  wear long trench coats and carry classified documents in briefcases as they slip through thick fog covered streets on their way to mysterious gatherings.  I would suggest finding a board member and voicing your concerns.   Just talk to them, you won't be tried for Boy Scout Treason and you may find the answers to your questions.

[InquisitiveScouter]

you won't be tried for Boy Scout Treason?

Yes, you will... in absentia, with no formal charges, defense, or appeal.  You will be blacklisted and excluded from participation at district and council level.

This has happened to me and others in this forum, for asking questions about decisions, governance, and finances.

@Mrjeffis probably right about board members, but when word reaches the professional staff, you could (repeat, could) have backlash.  Just tread carefully.

[Christi13]

There has been one time where I voiced a question and was informed by the Council President that I was stepping outside of my perview and if I did it again that I would be removed from my positions. 

[Mrjeff]

Well, I have always said that the Republicans and Democrats could learn a few things about politics, from the Boy Scouts.  The difference is that since I work for free, the whole idea of getting fired is quite laughable.  On the other hand the paid folks have a lot more to loose.  The Council president can't just remove somebody so that sounds like intimidation to me.  Its hard to ignore or dismiss someone who is really looking out for the best interest of the real stakeholders, the kids.  There are a lot of swollen egos around and people will get "but hurt" however if you can get over the hurt feelings and stand up for the kids you will get the attention of the other adults as well as the kids and you can't loose.  Easier said then done but it is doable.  Be right, be for the kids and stand your ground.

 

[SiouxRanger]

2 hours ago, Christi13 said:

There has been one time where I voiced a question and was informed by the Council President that I was stepping outside of my perview and if I did it again that I would be removed from my positions. 

The conundrum is how does one tell what is inside and outside one's purview, the consequences of getting it wrong being so dire?

Catch 22.

[jcousino]

This has happened to me and others in this forum, for asking questions about decisions, governance, and finances.

 

At least you will be in the company of good scouter that are not afraid to ask questions. Some people do not like being reminded that scouting is for the youth

[jcousino]

The Council president can't just remove somebody so that sounds like intimidation to me. 

yes they can and have with no reason given and no recourse

john

[Mrjeff]

Um.....no they can't............check the by-laws and operational procedures.  Anyway, do as you see fit.

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

3 hours ago, Mrjeff said:

Um.....no they can't............check the by-laws and operational procedures.  Anyway, do as you see fit.

 

Agreed that the membership regulations put an onus on SE & Council Pres to work in concert when taking such action.  But the Scout Executive has wide latitude to remove district and council positions.  Removal from Scouting has it's own procedure.

Page 12

https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Rules_Regulations_Sept20.pdf

"District and Council Scouters. District and council Scouters must be approved by the local council Scout executive. Council Scout executives may remove or refuse to renew the position registration of a district or council Scouter when the council president and council Scout executive agree that the Scouter’s service is no longer desired or required."

So, you can see there really is no standard here.  You'd hope there be a conversation between SE and member before such action is taken.  A "common courtesy" as it were...  But no, not here.  Ask the wrong questions, or provide an opinion in a survey that is not in line with the Scout Executive's desires, and you are removed from all these.

Our District and Council volunteer staffs and committees are mostly non-functional or non-existent.  And our district and council programs greatly suffer for it.

As long as the money keeps rolling in, the SE will do as they please.  It is a private organization, after all...

I have contacts in both levels who privately confirm the SE does this unilaterally, without a single discussion with our Council President.  Now hearsay isn't admissible  But, when more than five trustworthy individuals confirm this (including professionals), based on their lengthy history with the council, and without any official communications from the SE, you have to form a judgement as to what and how things happen.