Executive Board Meetings

[SSScout]

3 hours ago, Christi13 said:

This sounds eerily like the rumors that are going around my council right now.  That whole situation is what I've heard from other volunteers. We love our camp but don't trust the Scout Executive. 

Growing up, our family lived on a country road (which is now a regular heavily trafficed commuter route), about a short mile from a country store. This store was owned/run by a family, Mrs. "Smith" was the usual lady behind the counter.  My mom and I would walk up to get the occasional loaf of bread and eggs and maybe a Popsickle for me.  It became apparent to me, even at my tender age, that Mrs. Smith was often "forgetful" about correct change.  When I became old enough to make the walk myself on an errand, my dad counseled, " if you ever shake hands with Mrs. Smith, be sure to count your fingers afterward."

Shaking hands with the SE ?

[Eagle94-A1]

10 minutes ago, SSScout said:

Shaking hands with the SE ?

 

Ironically, I do not blame the current camp situation in my council on the SE.  Camp sales were planned prior to his arrival.  Now his previous predecessors....

[Cburkhardt]

A few responses to recent posts.  As background, I’ve been on two council boards (a small council and one of the largest in the country, on which I served as Council President) and was directly involved in dealing with needed property closures and sales – but we did it the right way.  Everything was public and transparent more than a year in advance and all adult and youth members were given multiple rounds of opportunities to give input to the decisions – and changes reflecting that input were made.  Not everyone is going to be happy in these and other contested situations, but when Scouters have their say and observe that what they are saying is being appropriately reacted to, chances for healthy future organizational relationships are far more likely.

If your council is considering a property closure or sale in response to the bankruptcy or inability to continue funding its operation, you should be comforted by knowing that no individual professional or volunteer can sell something in our system.  That is ultimately why the above-mentioned attempt to sell Owasippe failed.  Rather, interested Scouters have the chance to impact on such decisions with logical and businesslike argumentation.  We own and operate our properties for the benefit of the young people of today, and not to continue operations that are no longer serving those needs.  There is simply no justification to limping-along with a shabby and under-utilized property that is highly-mortgaged due to lack of operating cash.  Ultimately these camps are all subject to the market.  Operating a 300-acre summer camp that is 200 miles away from a council’s population base for two weeks each year (serving 200-300 Scouts) is an actual example of what I am talking about.   

As to council board membership, there is no council in the BSA where all CORs automatically serve on a council board or district committee.  CORs must go through the nominating committees for a council or district like anyone else.  While CORs do cast an annual vote to elect the Council Executive Board, the real sway CORs have is their moral suasion because they represent the chartered organization.  Council leadership will always return a phone call to the executive director of a chartered organization.  Ignoring a well-spoken COR with a reasoned point of view is not good, because it puts the future of the unit(s) at risk.  A disaffected COR needs to discuss the situation with the executive director of the chartered organization and generate communications to resolve the circumstance.

[Eagle94-A1]

8 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

A few responses to recent posts.  As background, I’ve been on two council boards (a small council and one of the largest in the country, on which I served as Council President) and was directly involved in dealing with needed property closures and sales – but we did it the right way.  Everything was public and transparent more than a year in advance and all adult and youth members were given multiple rounds of opportunities to give input to the decisions – and changes reflecting that input were made.  Not everyone is going to be happy in these and other contested situations, but when Scouters have their say and observe that what they are saying is being appropriately reacted to, chances for healthy future organizational relationships are far more likely.

If this really happened, then you are indeed fortunate. In several councils I have been in, that has not been the case. A lot of behind closed door decisions and deals.

 

9 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

If your council is considering a property closure or sale in response to the bankruptcy or inability to continue funding its operation, you should be comforted by knowing that no individual professional or volunteer can sell something in our system. 

But the SE can manipulate the nominating committee to recommending "yes men" so they rubber stamp the SE's decisions. I was told how to do that on the district level when I was a DE by one DFS and SE.

11 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

Rather, interested Scouters have the chance to impact on such decisions with logical and businesslike argumentation.  We own and operate our properties for the benefit of the young people of today, and not to continue operations that are no longer serving those needs.  There is simply no justification to limping-along with a shabby and under-utilized property that is highly-mortgaged due to lack of operating cash.  Ultimately these camps are all subject to the market.  Operating a 300-acre summer camp that is 200 miles away from a council’s population base for two weeks each year (serving 200-300 Scouts) is an actual example of what I am talking about. 

Where to begin on this one. 

1. Sometimes the powers that be are so set on selling a camp, they do not care what folks want, or willing to do.  There was a groups of Scouters locally willing to buy a camp, and take over operations, that way it could still be used by Scouts. They were willing the pay the original asking price.  Council wants all the money they could get since the camp had a bidding war between 2 developers.

2. The same camp being sold at one point was THE most used camp in the council with folks from nearby councils utilizing it as well since it was with 1 hours of major metro hours, and their camp was 2-3 hours away. The camp had so much usage, the other camps were being subsidized by its usage. Only reason usage  dropped was A. bridge to camp washed out and council took over 9 months to fix it B. COVID, and C. they decided to not hire a ranger when the old ranger retired.

3. Existing council camps have issues, not only meeting NCAP standards but also programming standards. Summer camp has a history or poor staff and lack of adequate supplies.

[Cburkhardt]

Eagle94:

What I said about our process did indeed happen, as I was Council President at the time and made it so.

Yes. the structure I describe can be manipulated in many ways to cause favor to particular outcomes.  What is necessary is to understand the system and carefully work to influence the outcome months and years in advance.  The challenge is that camp-oriented people are not always interested in investing in the fundraising, insurance, HR, district-council volunteer recruiting, event organizing and the many other things that end up qualifying Scouters for council board and district committee membership.  Let's face it, that is not the enjoyable programming activity.  There is no substitute for having a group of camp-oriented people on an Executive Board to assure that things are done transparently and with full knowledge.

This is an era during which there will be many properties sold to help fund the bankruptcy trust.  Further, councils that have downsized in membership due to COVID will not be able to continue some of their summer camp operations or ownership.  You will be pleased (or at least informed) about your local process if you have good relations with a group on the Board that is committed to a good process.  Or, you can advise and advocate from the outside by understanding and concentrating on the criteria the Board believes is decisive to their decision.    Ultimately the Board has a fiduciary duty to take actions in the best interests of future Scouts.  Their views may or may not be in alignment with your thoughts.  Good luck.

[InquisitiveScouter]

17 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

Ultimately the Board has a fiduciary duty to take actions in the best interests of future Scouts.  Their views may or may not be in alignment with your thoughts. 

Ultimately the Board has a fiduciary duty to take actions in the best interests of the corporation.  The way the system is constructed invariably leads to decisions that have nothing to do with the best interests of future Scouts.

Money before people.

[SSScout]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Ultimately the Board has a fiduciary duty to take actions in the best interests of the corporation.  The way the system is constructed invariably leads to decisions that have nothing to do with the best interests of future Scouts.

Money before people.

Aye , they be more like guidelines, actually...."

Council camps are often thought of as ONLY Scout camps.   Further seeing Council management can see more trees in the forest, to mix a metaphor...

* Rental to other outdoor groups/useage.  

*Nature study areas.

* Government easements for nature preservation. Ex: American Chestnut Hybrid,  Green exchanges,  

*Selective logging (operant word is "SELECTIVE")

* With some imaginative building, rental for private activities: Weddings, receptions, church retreats.

* Our Meeting grounds were recently named a "Certified Wildlife Habitat" by the National Wildlife Federation.  Easy, nice to promote things that are endemic to Scouting, yes?

* Sports events , school nature study,  create a relationship with the local Park service.  

*Hiking trails?   Birding Clubs?  

.... or just sell the damn place and pay off the debts and get ready to collect my pension....

 

[Cburkhardt]

Inquisitive and SSS,

Just curious, did either of you make an unrestricted contribution this current year to the council that owns and maintains the camps that you are concerned about?  Attending camp, volunteer hours and other “in-kind” contributions are not what I am talking about.

[InquisitiveScouter]

10 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

Attending camp, volunteer hours and other “in-kind” contributions are not what I am talking about.

I will never give an unrestricted contribution.  For a myriad of reasons...

But I have given hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars of materials to maintain our camp, which reduces the overall burden on their operating costs, and simply must be included in any intellectually honest discussions about camp properties.

I have also given same to other non-profits in our area, and those efforts are much better received and appreciated than anything done for our council.

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by InquisitiveScouter

[Cburkhardt]

Ever been something like a district finance chair, popcorn sales chair for a district, district solicitor for FOS or someone who spent significant time finding the least expensive insurance for your council’s service center?

[mrjohns2]

While important, maintenance can deferred. Paying the power bill cannot, insurance bill, payroll cannot. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

22 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

Ever been something like a district finance chair, popcorn sales chair for a district, district solicitor for FOS or someone who spent significant time finding the least expensive insurance for your council’s service center?

Lord, no!  Nor would I.  And why would I?  I wholeheartedly believe we need to gut the bloated structure we have, consolidate councils, reduce unnecessary/unproductive labor overhead.

Too many feeding at the trough as it is, with no value added to program, unit service, camp improvement, training, etc., etc., etc.

After all these years, I'm not gonna throw good money after bad!  A Scout is Thrifty!

[InquisitiveScouter]

7 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

While important, maintenance can deferred. Paying the power bill cannot, insurance bill, payroll cannot. 

Not indefinitely.  We have buildings that should be condemned (black mold, roof leaks, rotting structural members, etc.) because of deferred maintenance.

I have repeatedly asked since I moved here to see our council's plans for camp... non-existent.  Our new Ranger, whom I know well, is scheduled for NCS soon, has asked for same to review and take with him to Camp School... crickets...

Not going to give money to pay for further mismanagement.

Edited October 9, 2022 by InquisitiveScouter

[mrjohns2]

20 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I have repeatedly asked since I moved here to see our council's plans for camp... non-existent. 

Why make plans if one has no money and will likely sell the camp anyway?

[Cburkhardt]

The original purpose of this posting was an inquiry about how to interact effectively with and influence a council executive board, and the example of camp property and management has been used as an illustration.  
 

There is reality and there is what people would like.  The reality I have experienced with regard to executive boards for BSA, fine arts and educational entities is that the “stockholders” are always listened to.  They are the donor/investors (large or small) and workers on the tough, not-so-fun things that must be done to maintain the organizational structure to offer things like camps, teachers, and performance spaces.  They are usually past or current program-oriented users of these places as well.  These are the people who serve on or have significant influence with those boards.  They are not the unit leaders, ticket purchasers or tuition payers.

My late scoutmaster was not one of these people, and rarely had a good word for the work of district and council volunteers and professionals.  He did not want to assist their efforts, but understood he would have a more limited impact on the big decisions as a result.  He was a great scoutmaster for decades and his death was mourned by thousands.

One way to think of this is to compare the influence of a purchaser of a good to that of a person active in the management of the manufacturer or a stockholder/investor.  The consumer’s influence is to buy or not, and not much more.

You can choose to be an influencer in the BSA by being a volunteer worker, manager and investor in your council.  My scoutmaster was knowingly content with his decisions and behavior and did not fool himself into thinking he would play a big role in the significant council decisions.