Chapter 11 announced - Part 12 - District Court

[qwazse]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Advancement over adventure.  You and I both know they have it backwards.

A modest proposal for a new committee position:

1st Year (or as long as it takes) Parent Deprogrammer

Requirements

• YPT, Troop Committee Challenge, Register
• Master the following phrases in multiple languages including any local dialects:
  • Attend YPT. Talk about abuse, neglect, and bullying with your child. Know what to expect from us.
  • Yes, your scout is welcome time to do something fun and safe with us for zero credit. When he/she requests it, we will rearrange schedules accordingly.
  • The trail to first class is hard. The skills therein are difficult to master.
  • Use Scoutbook, but love that handbook. Trust, but verify.

[HashTagScouts]

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

@InquisitiveScouter,

 

That was the 2022 price. Here are the 2023 prices. And note they are subject to change. That is over $100 more than what we are paying.

 

 

Camps in New England are all at about$500/wk early bird pricing for 2023.

[Eagle94-A1]

50 minutes ago, qwazse said:

A modest proposal for a new committee position:

1st Year (or as long as it takes) Parent Deprogrammer

 My CC who said the comments is a 20 veteran who has been to Philmont and WB with no kids in the program anymore.

 

30 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

Camps in New England are all at about$500/wk early bird pricing for 2023.

YOB TOVU MAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Non of my Scouts could afford that.

[MYCVAStory]

I'm at the District Court.  Not wanting to trigger a libel suit I'll leave out the who said what and whether they stumbled.  This morning was all about the "Good Faith" argument.  This is a weak part of the insurer's objection, and it showed.  The judge asked many questions and most seemed to be doubtful of the insurer's points.  So basically, insurers spoke for 30 minutes, including questions from the judge, White and Case for the BSA did the same, and then they both took questions for 45 minutes.  Recess until 2.

 

[MYCVAStory]

District court this afternoon...  The issues addressed were Assignment of Insurance contract rights and obligations, as well as Indirect abuse claims and judgement reduction.  This was VERY specific insurance arguments with lots of case law cited.  Several attorneys for both sides presented and fielded questions.  This Judge has done his homework and his demeanor was one of slight befuddlement masking a VERY sharp mind on the issues.  The popular opinion was that the certain insurers again did not sway the judge.  It seemed like repeatedly he asked the plan supporters to help him make arguments with examples and challenged the objectors.  Time and time again he kept asking the insurers "Aren't your rights preserved?"  Insurers also had issues with the TDP.  That's pretty funny since the ones objecting didn't choose to constructively participate or settle.  Overall, the Judge's demeanor went from skeptical to exasperated .  He quickly grew tired of the insurer's hypothetical doomsday scenarios where the Trustee wouldn't do her job or wouldn't be around long-term, and at one point he put his hands up and said "The idea that the Trustee will be replaced by a plaintiff's attorney wearing a "Death to insurance companies" t-shirt is painful to imagine."  Like I said, much of it was very specific to case law from all over and fun terms like "asymmetrical reduction clause." 

The role of the District Court is to find LEGAL flaws in the approved plan, and not re-litigate confirmation.  To that end it did not look like the objectors moved the needle much and the Judge seemed to signal that he is okay with the plan, the Trustee's role in addressing the next steps, and the non-participating insurers litigating the issues they want.  As one of the supporting insurance attorneys commented, and which the Judge nodded in agreement, "The insurance companies don't get to live in a world where the bankruptcy didn't happen."

Tomorrow should be MUCH more interesting and telling.  Third-party releases, Automatic Stay, and Best interest of creditors will be addressed.   I might have a completely wrong take on things right now but Survivors should at least be pleased that this Judge has done his homework and understands Judge Silverstein's opinion as well as the briefs filed.

 

[MYCVAStory]

Just a little stage-setting.  What it looks like in the District Court:

Actually looks like a TV courtroom.  Lots of wood and portraits of judges.  Half-dozen attorneys sit up front from each side.  Each side's attorneys get a prescribed amount of time and the judge interrupts a lot.  Then both sides stand and there's a bit of a lightning round.  Afternoon was 150 minutes.  Audience looks like a middle-aged white men in dark suits convention.   Probably 100 attorneys and there's an overflow room somewhere in the building watching it on TV. You get to use your phone and laptop in the audience and many do.  Interesting to see faces from the years of Zoom land.  I noted Tanc, Ricky Mason, Ken Rotheweiler, Andrew Van Arsdale, Kennedy and Humphrey and a bunch of TCC attorneys, Dumas representing Guam Survivors.

[mrjohns2]

22 hours ago, MYCVAStory said:

I'm at the District Court. 

Thank you for the play by play. It is very interesting. Can’t wait until this phase is over. 

[MYCVAStory]

District Court this morning.....

This was the main event.  Focus was on subject matter jurisdiction and third-party releases.  Luria, Anker, and Mason on one side, Lujan and Dumas on the other.  For every point made by one side there was a counter-point.  Like yesterday the Judge seemed to have a very good grasp on the issues and a lot of focus was not on whether this was the best plan (that was for Judge Silverstein to be more concerned with) but whether it conformed to the law.  The proponents were well prepared and while the objectors less so they did a good job making their points when they weren't going off on a tangent.  Whereas yesterday it was easy to determine that the insurers didn't make any headway, it appeared like the fleet of lawyers present today in the gallery couldn't smile or frown afterward.  Everyone knew that these issues are political and realistic hot potatoes right now.  I did get the sense from his questions that the Judge was looking for an avenue to feel good about the scope of the releases and asked some questions to make sure they didn't extend to non-scouting abuse in some cases.  But, the Judge pointed out that the number of releases to COs exceeded the number of claimants!   I was taking notes furiously, and reviewing them, at the end of the day I think most people didn't get a comfortable take on where the Judge stood.  At the most, there didn't appear to be any "ah-hah" moments where a flaw in Silverstein's ruling was laid bare.  Yesterday was a slam-dunk for the plan proponents.  Today was a boxing match where you waited for a knockout punch but at round's end both sides just went to their corners.  This would suggest that the Judge, knowing this is headed to the Circuit on Appeal where the court is more aggressive, might be inclined to say "It isn't perfect but if it was good enough for Judge Silverstein, it's good enough for me."

 

This afternoon will be automatic stay, insurance, and best interest.  It appears that the judge has about heard enough and expectations are, from the time allotted, that this afternoon will be short.  No one's guessing how long it'll be before a decision is entered but the fact that this was heard before most people expected is being taken that the wait might not be unexpectedly long as it was with Judge Silverstein.

[Eagle1993]

Thanks for the updates!

I do wonder what would happen if Purdue Pharma appeal kills the releases.  I know it is another circuit, but there is a ton of attention and change with respect to non debtor releases.  If an appeal court rejects them (Purdue had more support in terms of votes than BSA) then I wonder if either the District Court or 3rd Circuit appeals puts the breaks on the BSA plan.

I would expect plan supporters are probably hoping that either a ruling comes out backing Purdue Pharma OR the ruling is delayed until BSA has district approval and starts implementing their plan.

[MYCVAStory]

8 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I do wonder what would happen if Purdue Pharma appeal kills the releases.  I know it is another circuit, but there is a ton of attention and change with respect to non debtor releases.  If an appeal court rejects them (Purdue had more support in terms of votes than BSA) then I wonder if either the District Court or 3rd Circuit appeals puts the breaks on the BSA plan.

I would expect plan supporters are probably hoping that either a ruling comes out backing Purdue Pharma OR the ruling is delayed until BSA has district approval and starts implementing their plan.

Couple things.....

Consensus is that Third Party Releases in Districts that allow them won't be negatively impacted until the Supreme Court weighs in.  Districts and Circuits like to follow their own precedent until instructed otherwise.

Sorry, to say, if the plan gets District Approval then look for the certain insurers to move for a stay, quickly, while this waits for Circuit appeal.  The plan could still be funded with a few million but this would only allow the Trustee to start some infrastructure and prepare for the significant funding someday.  That's a good thing until there's money to be awarded but that award money wouldn't go out the door until significant funding.   BSA, Methodists, settling insurers could fund the Trust prior to a Third Circuit appeal but they'd do so at a risk that the plan could be tossed.

[MYCVAStory]

Friday afternoon at District Court....

This was the Guam Show with Lujan chasing a number of issues.  It was painful to watch at times as one thing after another was thrown against the all to see if anything stuck.  The gist of the objecting argument was that Guam's Survivors deserved different treatment than the plan allowed based on a series of factors both unique and not so.  The arguments really highlighted the fact that in bankruptcy claimants, like Survivors, become a "class" and lose individual treatment that was enjoyed pre-bankruptcy.  As well, the Judge also highlighted his role in determining whether the bankruptcy court erred in applying the law when he said to Lujan "To say the bankruptcy was wrong I'd have to find that she (Silverstein) was clearly erroneous."  He was basically saying "You might not like the plan, it might have your clients losing some opportunities they had pre-bankruptcy, but if it follows the bankruptcy code it's good enough."  Luria did a good job of demonstrating why the Guam arguments didn't apply and after Lujan complained that the plan was changed after her clients voted on it Luria put the smackdown on by highlighting the number of Guam claimants and saying "If Lujan's clients don't like the plan now we'll accept their votes changed to 'NO'.....that won't change the vote outcome!"  Luria had enough and reminded the Court that it's been three years, $250 mil spent and time to get on with it.  The Judge stayed patient but that wore off and at the end put his hand up to interrupt Lujan when her agreed upon time had run out and said "I think we're done."  Judging from the number of attorneys in the gallery who spent the two hours on their phones it was easy to feel that the afternoon's objections went nowhere.

A bright spot for Survivors was at the end of the agenda.  The Judge acknowledged that he knew people were waiting for some resolution and he commented that the decision was "...going to take some time", and then there was a long pause while the gallery waited for him to say how long that might be, and then to some laughter he said "In the meantime I guess you'll have to wait."  Still, it was obvious that he's aware people want a decision.

So, enjoy the wait.

[PaleRider]

On 1/31/2023 at 7:57 AM, Eagle1993 said:

It has been a while, but it feels like we are getting close to the end (or the beginning of the actual trust).

It doesn't seem like District Court is pushing to overturn.  In Purdue, the confirmation was September 17th and it took the District Court less than a month to reject the deal.  I also do not see the US DOJ pushing hard against the BSA deal (compared to what they did in Purdue).  I'm starting to get the impression that approval by District Court is highly likely.  If they had major concerns, one would think they would push to hear the appeal more quickly.  That doesn't guarantee anything, but the arguments put forward by the insurance companies seem weak (for the most part, they can still fight the settlement trust).  There are a few claimants, but the vast majority seem to support the plan.  This circuit already allows non debtor releases ... so, I just don't see much momentum behind rejection.  That said ... there is always a path.

I am hopeful by March we may see the approval of the plan by District Court.  I believe further appeals can happen after that, but from what I understand, the plan wouldg start being implemented after district court and appeals could quickly become moot.

 

[PaleRider]

N

Edited February 11, 2023 by PaleRider

[MYCVAStory]

10 hours ago, PaleRider said:

I am hopeful by March we may see the approval of the plan by District Court.  I believe further appeals can happen after that, but from what I understand, the plan wouldg start being implemented after district court and appeals could quickly become moot.

The District court decision could be stayed by the court if the insurers fight for the stay, and they probably would get it based upon precedence, so it could go to Circuit court review.  A wait for Circuit Court could be....a year if that's what it wants or it knows an issue will come up in the Supreme Court in the meantime.  The Trust could be funded but only for "startup" costs so that key personnel can start work on procedures in anticipation of real funding.  Expect that to occur so that the Trust can say to the Court "Look, we're all ready to go and the Trust is working as designed."  I'd like to be all kinds of optimistic here but the reality is that the non-settling insurers have EVERY reason to hold this up as long as possible.  Well, billions of reasons at least.

[Eagle1970]

2 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said:

The District court decision could be stayed by the court if the insurers fight for the stay, and they probably would get it based upon precedence, so it could go to Circuit court review.  A wait for Circuit Court could be....a year if that's what it wants or it knows an issue will come up in the Supreme Court in the meantime.  The Trust could be funded but only for "startup" costs so that key personnel can start work on procedures in anticipation of real funding.  Expect that to occur so that the Trust can say to the Court "Look, we're all ready to go and the Trust is working as designed."  I'd like to be all kinds of optimistic here but the reality is that the non-settling insurers have EVERY reason to hold this up as long as possible.  Well, billions of reasons at least.

Unfortunately, time is always on the side of insurers.  I know of an injury case where the insurer recently wrote a check for the policy limit.....in the 6th year following the event.  They probably knew they were going to write that check.  But--Over six years, the dollars became far less valuable, due to inflation, and earned the insurance company a healthy investment return.  Sadly, in that case, 6 years of expenses ate up much of the injured party's recovery.

I agree this could drag out.  Though I hope (for the sake of survivors who are aging by the day) I am proven wrong.