NCAP Standards Applied to ALL Council & District Events

[SiouxRanger]

From my last couple of meetings on a Council Committee, it appears that NCAP Standards are going to be applied to ALL Council and District events.  Camporees, OA events, Cub Day Camps, Weekend activities (fishing, shooting, climbing, orienteering weekends) at the local camp.  Some of these may already be subject to NCAP Standards. 

I am a fan of standards but I dropped out of NCAP Assessment Team participation as every camp we assessed, passed.  Even when not a single fire extinguisher could be found that was within certification ("We ordered those-should be here in a couple of weeks."  "Well, those Scouts just over there-they are here NOW.")  Or, all the tractors, including a bulldozer were neatly parked in an Adirondack shelter, pointed at the Health Lodge and Trading Post building-everyone neatly having their keys in their ignition.  Seriously?  "Well, it's a big hassle to lock up the keys and then have to retrieve them..."  "Well, how much of a hassle is it to rebuild the Health Lodge and get the bulldozer out of the lake?"  "Ever met a lawyer? They are an unpleasant lot, they are."

So, one point of the discussion was that every menu for a Council or District event will have to be approved by a licensed Dietician.  Even for weekend events.  One committee member commented, "Just how malnourished can you get in 3 or 4 meals?"

I am all on-board on health/safety issues:  first aid kits, emergency procedures (posted everywhere), fire extinguishers, medical personnel and first response equipment, etc.

A seasoned volunteer (old fogey) mentioned the new situation regarding NCAP  to me and commented that the new requirements will discourage volunteers from agreeing to manage events.  "Those volunteers already have enough on their plate in planning the event."

Our Council is discussing creating a whole bureaucracy to administer the application of NCAP standards to Council and District events.  The key here is that we need even MORE volunteers to administer the program.

Given the demographic financial dynamics, (Old Scouters retiring and dying off, and younger Scouters still working and not making a living wage, or overwhelmed with parenting), willing volunteers and active Scouters, in my Council are fading fast.

Just what I have seen, a few comments...

This is what seems to be coming.

[Sentinel947]

It will make it much harder to put on council events. 

[RememberSchiff]

More hassle, but I guess if it increases the number of Porta-potties from 2 to 3 maybe success can be claimed.

Edited August 19, 2022 by RememberSchiff

[DuctTape]

District and Council events are mostly the antithesis of patrol method camping anyway. I discourage them (to the adults).

[5thGenTexan]

27 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

District and Council events are mostly the antithesis of patrol method camping anyway. I discourage them (to the adults).

Our District events are usually ok regarding what the Units get to do during non-program time.  All meals are cooked in camp and we are generally left alone.  Council events I have zero interest in ever going again.

[jcousino]

I thought the rules for Short term camp went into place about 2 years ago when I went through my first short-term camp ad. classes and just completed my renewal.

There is no difference in the rules between council or district events. Even if staff stays over on a day-only event it can trigger the requirements. 

I agree with you SiouxRanger  that a lot of camp inspections were ok we will fix that (wink, wink). I would not surprise me if you found too much you might not be asked to be on that group next time, Just my 2 cents. I remember the amount of just junk  paperwork when i started over haling our health lodge

[InquisitiveScouter]

3 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

I am a fan of standards but I dropped out of NCAP Assessment Team participation as every camp we assessed, passed.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  smh

[Eagle94-A1]

Someone here mentioned when NCAP first went into effect years ago that NCAP would be a way for councils to get rid of unwanted properties by saying they do not meet standards. I am starting to believe it.  Like @SiouxRanger, I know that the NCAP team in my neck of the woods have certified events and camps that really do not meet the new NCAP requirements. Long story short, several properties are being sold, and one is being retained and improved upon to meet NCAP standards. 

[mrjohns2]

Application of NCAP for camporees and OA etc went into enforcement 2 years ago this coming Jan. 

[PACAN]

This is a 372 page document that the inspection team go through in an afternoon at a long term camp and then do a photo op with the pennant.   Not a chance this is a thorough evaluation.

[InquisitiveScouter]

11 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

into enforcement

Into effect, maybe, but not enforcement 😜

[jcousino]

once again we do not follow our own rules and get

upset if some one calls us on it. (hope its not one of those lawyer types that comes a calling)

Edited August 19, 2022 by jcousino

[satl8]

This is in no ways a thorough inspection of the camp (if using a current long term certified camp) since the long term folks should have done there job to inspect the camp and create a safe space for long term camps. If it's safe for long term camping then a short term camp should be well protected and a safe space...

 

There are inspections and requirements that need to be done if the camping spot is not a NCAP inspected spot.

 

NCAP STC Process

[Eagle1993]

11 hours ago, DuctTape said:

District and Council events are mostly the antithesis of patrol method camping anyway. I discourage them (to the adults).

Our District Klondike is probably the best patrol method event of the year.  

Edited August 19, 2022 by Eagle1993

[mrjohns2]

When I did a short term camp inspection using the NCAP standards I asked for a lot of info that should have been easy to supply. Crickets.