InquisitiveScouter Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 17 hours ago, ALongWalk said: I am at the point of thinking there is no way National survives now. Sure hope that LC’s are discussing some sort of confederations that will allow Scouting to continue. We all need to begin thinking about this "What if?" If you desire to continue supporting Scouting, what will you do if BSA goes Chapter 7? (Let's make this a new thread, please?) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 17 hours ago, fred8033 said: “Forward, yes" ... I don't understand. Are you saying the post-bankruptcy BSA would pay into the bankruptcy trust for abuse that happened after the bankruptcy? Abuse that occurs after emergence (and Phoenix rising) is new liability with no release protection from the bankruptcy. Also, “claim values” will be referenced in future cases, which is one of the reasons insurers hate that matrix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred8033 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 7 hours ago, ThenNow said: Abuse that occurs after emergence (and Phoenix rising) is new liability with no release protection from the bankruptcy. Also, “claim values” will be referenced in future cases, which is one of the reasons insurers hate that matrix. Agreed that future abuse after bankruptcy emergence is new liability. ... but is there some connection between the new liability / new financial awards and the settlement trust being created? Are future victims somehow pulled into this pending settlement? I just don't understand the details of @yknot saying "BSA is also on the hook to make some kind of continuing future contributions to the settlement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yknot Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 29 minutes ago, fred8033 said: Agreed that future abuse after bankruptcy emergence is new liability. ... but is there some connection between the new liability / new financial awards and the settlement trust being created? Are future victims somehow pulled into this pending settlement? I just don't understand the details of @yknot saying "BSA is also on the hook to make some kind of continuing future contributions to the settlement" Let me clarify. It had nothing to do with new future liability from existing cases. What (I thought) I understood was that BSA owes money to the settlement -- that some portion of what it has pledged or owes is going to come from future revenues based on its achieving its business plan and that that money will be funneled into the trust going forward. I was wondering if someone knew for certain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred8033 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 hour ago, yknot said: ... that some portion of what it has pledged or owes is going to come from future revenues based on its achieving its business plan and that that money will be funneled into the trust going forward. I was wondering if someone knew for certain. Ahhh ... that makes sense. Essentially, there is a transition time. To pay the settlement, an amount will be coming from new membership and scout shop sales. Such as parents paying dues for their seven-year-old to be a Tiger scout and then buying him a uniform and books. Or money from scouts attending national events and high adventure camps. ... The days of BSA having cash savings are in the past. The days of big donors won't exist while BSA is fundraising for a settlement. Money will be coming from the current and new kids and their parents. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1980Scouter Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 5 hours ago, yknot said: Let me clarify. It had nothing to do with new future liability from existing cases. What (I thought) I understood was that BSA owes money to the settlement -- that some portion of what it has pledged or owes is going to come from future revenues based on its achieving its business plan and that that money will be funneled into the trust going forward. I was wondering if someone knew for certain. I saw that too in one version of the plans. Not sure if it is in the current one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clbkbx Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, 1980Scouter said: Not sure if it is in the current one. There is a Settlement Trust Contribution from BSA that includes a note, cash, artwork, oil & gas leases, etc. (+/- $250 million is the most recent estimate I can find... not sure if that has been updated). After that is paid there is a Settlement Growth Payment (see #267 in the most recent plan), which I believe is what you are referencing. Up to $100 million additional based on membership rates above 1.5 million scouters or 0.5 million volunteers. The $100 million would be realized if they have 5.5% annual growth. Edited September 5, 2022 by clbkbx Updated reference in plan. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle1993 Posted September 5, 2022 Author Share Posted September 5, 2022 28 minutes ago, clbkbx said: There is a Settlement Trust Contribution from BSA that includes a note, cash, artwork, oil & gas leases, etc. (+/- $250 million is the most recent estimate I can find... not sure if that has been updated). After that is paid there is a Settlement Growth Payment (see #267 in the most recent plan), which I believe is what you are referencing. Up to $100 million additional based on membership rates above 1.5 million scouters or 0.5 million volunteers. The $100 million would be realized if they have 5.5% annual growth. I believe this was added to the plan to make sure BSA didn't low ball their business plan to get out of paying more to the settlement. So, if BSA high adventure attendees exceed plan, I believe the have to pay $150 per attendee. Similar to registered scouts, if they exceed the plan they own $50 per scout. I'll see if I can find that section in the plan... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle1970 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Just wondering, with delayed sales of contribution property and future insurance settlements, how long will the trust be distributing money to survivors? Many years? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clbkbx Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 57 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said: pay $150 per attendee That is how the Settlement Trust Contribution payout timeline is determined. Quote Such annual principal payments shall be equal to the sum of the following calculation: (a) $4,500,000; plus (b) $3.50 multiplied by the aggregate number of Youth Members as of December 31 of the preceding year up to the forecasted number of Youth Members for such year as set forth in the Debtors’ five-year business plan; plus (c) $50 multiplied by the aggregate number of High Adventure Base Participants during the preceding calendar year; plus (d) $50 multiplied by the aggregate number of Youth Members in excess of the forecasted number of Youth Members for such year, excluding the portion of the excess that is comprised of members under the ScoutReach program, as set forth in the Debtors’ five-year business plan; plus (e) $150 multiplied by the aggregate number of High Adventure Base Participants, excluding those attending events with a registration fee of less than $300. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Eagle1970 said: how long will the trust be distributing money to survivors? Many years? Define “many.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MYCVAStory Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 4 hours ago, Eagle1970 said: Just wondering, with delayed sales of contribution property and future insurance settlements, how long will the trust be distributing money to survivors? Many years? Could easily be years plural. There are several "Non-Settling Insurers." They will be taken to court and if the Trust is successful, or an agreement is reached before-hand, they'll be forced to pay. For the insurers this is always a Time Value of Money exercise. The longer they hold onto their money the more they can make off of it. At some point that risk or expense from their own insurers becomes a money losing proposition. Ever file a claim for auto insurance that gets contested? The insurer knows that the longer they can delay things the greater the possibility you'll settle for far less than originally. That's why any time you hear someone who owes Survivors moneyt say "The most important thing is getting money into Survivors' hands" you should be wary of a lowball offer. For the Trust the same dynamic is at play. How long and how much money should it spend chasing X dollars? Regardless, bringing non-settling insurers AND Charter Organizations to settlement will be the ongoing business of the trust and will result in a series of payments to valid claims. BUT....and teh BIG ASTERISK...."Your award may not result in you receiving that actual amount of money." Survivors need to be cautioned that at some point they'll learn what their award is "valued" but the actual amount received will be a function of the total amount of money the Trust can generate....minus expenses. So yes....could be multiple disbursements over a lengthy timeline. I cringe thinking of the impact on some Survivors, and myself included, when a check for $37.86 hits my mailbox. Insult, meet injury. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred8033 Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 13 hours ago, clbkbx said: There is a Settlement Trust Contribution from BSA that includes... 12 hours ago, Eagle1993 said: I believe this was added to the plan to make sure BSA didn't low ball their business plan... Thank you. I really appreciate the detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, MYCVAStory said: ...when a check for $37.86 hits my mailbox. Insult, meet injury. Is that an inflation-adjusted estimate? I need to know how long to make the layaway term for the purchase of my new pair of Red Ball Jets. Edited September 6, 2022 by ThenNow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 16 hours ago, MYCVAStory said: Survivors need to be cautioned that at some point they'll learn what their award is "valued" but the actual amount received will be a function of the total amount of money the Trust can generate....minus expenses. As well as the number of claims left standing after the JLSS-mandated investigation, ferreting and vetting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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