Adult uniform minimalism philosophy

[qwazse]

I don’t wear a suit jacket to church anymore, so my mentor pins go on my uniform. If it bothers someone, and they own a “proper” outfit on which to wear them, and they wear it regularly, I’ll send them one for them to wear.

I’m not a fan of rows of knots. I love seeing temporary patches and Jambo patch’s on everyone. O/A flaps are cool too. Things with words that carry real meaning.

BSA dug it’s own grave. They deserve scouters who overbling if they encourage obscurely titled council patches that can be seen from space at night.

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by qwazse

[elitts]

17 hours ago, yknot said:

I don't think adult regalia has a place in a youth organization other than a particular color shirt or lanyard or lapel pin to indicate who is an adult leader/coach/official and who is not. In scouts, there's a legitimate use in identifying council, troop number and program. I have a hard time, though, appreciating what the purpose is for signifying anything more for adults in scouting. To me, the often cited idea of using patches, badges and pins to start conversations or to try to publicize a program aspect is like trying to communicate by semaphore or some other obscure method: There are more direct and effective ways, and it makes the purpose suspect to do otherwise. I don't know of any other youth organization that does this. The focus is better kept on youth accomplishments than adult ones.  

One key difference between BSA and virtually any other youth program that heavily utilizes volunteers is that the BSA tries to keep theirs even once the volunteer's children are no longer involved.  As a result, a uniform that serves as something of a badge of service has more value than it would if you were just using parents as volunteers for the length of their child's participation.

It also helps newer Scouters gauge the value of input from more experienced Scouters.  Not that it's foolproof by any means, but at least if someone has been around long enough to earn 4+ knots, you know they likely have at least 5 or more years of experience to draw upon.

Plus, it helps me to know who to avoid when I don't want a long conversation.  (The guy with 13 knots and 7 medals all on their shirt on a daily basis)

[fred8033]

Looking at the wall behind my desk.  Years ago, I had two extra sashes.  So, they hang on my home office wall and show my bling.  Eagle dad pins.  Eagle mentor pins.  Favorite camp patches.  Pins from other organizations I received.  Pin for my Woodbadge animal.  Pin for religious scout org. 

Better than hidden in a drawer.  Reminds me it is scout stuff.   

[mrjohns2]

6 hours ago, qwazse said:

They deserve scouters who overbling

Yes, those who over bling with mentor pins. 😜

[FireStone]

The general vibe I'm getting here is that pretty much everyone has a preference one way or the other, but is also mostly ok with everyone doing whatever they personally want to do. Which is great.

I like to say I'm open-minded about uniforms but I do have one thing I'm 100% against: Adults wearing Eagle rank patches. I've seen 2 people do it.

[MattR]

14 minutes ago, FireStone said:

I like to say I'm open-minded about uniforms but I do have one thing I'm 100% against: Adults wearing Eagle rank patches. I've seen 2 people do it.

That's also against the rules. Once you're 18 you have to swap the eagle patch for a knot.

I gave out a lot of eagle patches that weren't allowed to be worn. I asked that the parents get their son a knot.

[Cburkhardt]

For me it is just six knots.  The top row has three favorite service award knots from my years of adult service.  The bottom row has my AOL, Eagle and Quartermaster  from my youth years.  These knots are conversation-starters that help break the ice with new friends.  Other than that, just my Scoutmaster or Skipper patches.  I find the guide is pretty good on limiting excess quantity.

Maybe after the bankruptcy we will all be wearing blank polo shirts!   

[mrjohns2]

1 hour ago, FireStone said:

The general vibe I'm getting here is that pretty much everyone has a preference one way or the other, but is also mostly ok with everyone doing whatever they personally want to do.

I think people should follow the Guide to Awards and Insignia. Then the uniforms will be, uh, uniform. I won't confront the person, no, so I'm not so bent out of shape to tell them what to do if I see it. I do notice it and note it in my mental infraction book logbook. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by mrjohns2

[qwazse]

1 hour ago, FireStone said:

… I like to say I'm open-minded about uniforms but I do have one thing I'm 100% against: Adults wearing Eagle rank patches. I've seen 2 people do it.

Being one who opposes ageism, I’m not about to insignia wonk a guy (or, now, gal) who still has their Eagle or any other oval, on their left pocket.
If I wrote the Insignia Guide, I would insist

• that all you all wear the rank you achieved. (Doing so could reduce “knot noise” by two — since AoL and Eagle knots would be redundant.)
• that we’d issue ovals with distinctive borders (or, perhaps, distinctive size/shape) to anyone who went back as adult leader and mastered the skills to earn their next rank.
• that we’d have an even more distinct oval for a rank mastered by adults who were never in the program.
• councils would go back to drab shoulder patches — matching the color scheme and font of unit numbers — with the name of the largest city and state in that council. (Want your municipality to have its name recognized? Build up the board and the membership to have its own council.)
• epaulets could be striped or checkered reflecting the multiple divisions at which a scouter may served. An alternative is to be rid of epaulets, and put those colors on the borders of the council patch.
• standard issue chord and instructions for making a woggle or bolo tie suitable for holding mentor pins.

But, I’m just a stranger on the internet.

[Eagledad]

3 minutes ago, qwazse said:

.But, I’m just a stranger on the internet.

I’m trying to find it, but isn’t that a Johnny Cash song.

Barry

[scoutldr]

I had a 60 year "career" with the BSA, including cubs, Scouts, Explorers and adult.  I always took the Uniform and Insignia Guide to heart and wore my uniform in accordance.  I feel adults should set the example for proper uniforming and would never shame someone for properly wearing an award that was earned.  Of course, I grew up in a military family and had a 32 year career as a civilian in a military organization and being "out of uniform" is simply not done.  Even BP continued to wear his military honors on his Scout uniform.

[mrjohns2]

27 minutes ago, qwazse said:

councils would go back to drab shoulder patches

This is a great idea. Our council just went to a "modern" one from our old drab'ish one. They also increased the size beyond the standard to the new "standard extra-large". Ugh. They also made 10 with different boarders for districts and camps and commissioners. Not what we need.

 

29 minutes ago, qwazse said:

standard issue chord and instructions for making a woggle or bolo tie suitable for holding mentor pins.

Very very good compromise. 

[FireStone]

2 hours ago, MattR said:

That's also against the rules. Once you're 18 you have to swap the eagle patch for a knot.

I gave out a lot of eagle patches that weren't allowed to be worn. I asked that the parents get their son a knot.

I should have mentioned, I'm not even talking about giving an 18-year-old a hard time about it. These are 50+ year old guys wearing rank ovals.

[RememberSchiff]

8 minutes ago, FireStone said:

...These are 50+ year old guys wearing rank ovals.

Oh no,  dare I say,  ManScouts?   

[mrjohns2]

I just saw an ~85 year old scouter who was wearing his tiny oval eagle badge. I gave him a pass with no entry into the infraction log book. He is a great guy and I don’t mind him wearing it.