Question About Investigation Procedures

[Cburkhardt]

The policy still says to go first to law enforcement (for actusl reports of abuse) and then to the local Scout Executive.  The national 800 number was intended to be a place for BSA employees to report personnel problems with their BSA bosses.  Generally, it is still not intended for YPT issues or volunteer/youth matters.  I presume the practice of the 800 number contractor referring volunteer/youth matters to the local councils is just a sound administrative  referral practice.

[jcousino]

What about People who have professional requirement's  that make them  a required reporter to some form of state agency (law enforcement, Child welfare, Ect). I would report to the senior scout professional  present  then to proper state agency for follow up. Not a law enforcement ,fan  but i have heard things 3 rd hand if i had been been made aware of by the scout directly l then I would have to reported it . Directs threats of physical harm is one of the them. add a drug to another scouts water bottle would be an other.. Scout Exe  try to minorize most activities because it puts scouting in a bad light. 

[Cburkhardt]

The BSA policy is clear.  When a Scouter becomes aware that actual abuse is taking place, action should be taken to cease the immediate abuse, followed by a report to law enforcement, and then the Scout Executive.  Whether a fact is abuse or not would depend on local law.

[Prime00]

On 6/25/2022 at 3:32 PM, scoutlaw74 said:

So how did this all turn out? 

 

[Prime00]

So I am willing to put a bounty out for anyone that can provide the updated version of the document "Maintaining Standards of Membership" We can find the 1972 version without too much trouble but there has to be an updated one out there somewhere. So anyone out there that has the document and is willing to send it to me, I am willing to pay them cash.

I been seeing a lot of abuse happening in our local council from Council level employees on down and no one is willing to take a stand against what is wrong. National ignores pleas for help. The Council Executive just threatens to revoke charters and memberships left and right. After he does that, he puts the word out that no one is to speak to anyone and goes on to the next person that he wants to abuse. It never stops. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

Start here.

Rules_Regulations_July2023.pdf

See page 8, underlining added:

"Unit Leaders. Unit leaders must be selected and approved by the chartered organization and are subject to the approval of the local council and the Boy Scouts of America. Unit leaders must be 21 years of age or older when registering, except that assistant Cubmasters, assistant Scoutmasters, assistant den leaders, and assistant Webelos den leaders must be 18 years of age or older. Chartered organizations may remove or refuse to renew the unit registration of unit leaders when the unit committee and chartered organization representative agree that the Scouter’s service is no longer desired or required.? Unit Leaders. Unit leaders must be selected and approved by the chartered organization and are subject to the approval of the local council and the Boy Scouts of America. Unit leaders must be 21 years of age or older when registering, except that assistant Cubmasters, assistant\ Scoutmasters, assistant den leaders, and assistant Webelos den leaders must be 18 years of age or older. Chartered organizations may remove or refuse to renew the unit registration of unit leaders when the unit committee and chartered organization representative agree that the Scouter’s service is no longer desired or required."

"District and Council Scouters. District and council Scouters must be approved by the local council Scout executive. Council Scout executives may remove or refuse to renew the position registration of a district or council Scouter when the council president and council Scout executive agree that the Scouter’s service is no longer desired or required."

Your post presents a bunch of questions: Who, what, why, how?

[InquisitiveScouter]

34 minutes ago, Prime00 said:

So I am willing to put a bounty out for anyone that can provide the updated version of the document "Maintaining Standards of Membership" We can find the 1972 version without too much trouble but there has to be an updated one out there somewhere. So anyone out there that has the document and is willing to send it to me, I am willing to pay them cash.

I been seeing a lot of abuse happening in our local council from Council level employees on down and no one is willing to take a stand against what is wrong. National ignores pleas for help. The Council Executive just threatens to revoke charters and memberships left and right. After he does that, he puts the word out that no one is to speak to anyone and goes on to the next person that he wants to abuse. It never stops. 

You aren't going to get anywhere with National.  The SE technically works for your local council Board.  Each council is its own non-profit corporation.  If there are issues, it has to be handled at the local corporate level, unless there is some egregious conduct.

In the military, egregious conduct was usually the big four: funds, guns, buns, & secrets.

Funds: unless the SE is misappropriating funds, Nat'l prob not getting involved...

Guns: the BSA analogy would be the SE putting the safety of others at risk, or Nat'l not getting involved...

Buns:  sexual misconduct of some sort, or Nat'l not getting involved...

Secrets:  Exposure of sensitive membership information, or releasing info from the "inner sanctum", else Nat'l will not get involved.

Just about everything else would be at local Board level.  There are others on the forum with much more experience and insights into these matters, though.  Perhaps they'll weigh in.

[Prime00]

Yeah our Council hides the contact information of all the board members and executive board and refused to disclose any meeting information about them. They used to have this information posted but now it is all a big secret that they refuse to disclose. So much for no secret organizations there I guess. Even when you do figure out some contact information, they are told not to respond at all. The Executive is basically running his own little fiefdom here and has bullied everyone around so he can maintain control. I have never seen anything like this in my life. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

16 minutes ago, Prime00 said:

Yeah our Council hides the contact information of all the board members and executive board and refused to disclose any meeting information about them. They used to have this information posted but now it is all a big secret that they refuse to disclose. So much for no secret organizations there I guess. Even when you do figure out some contact information, they are told not to respond at all. The Executive is basically running his own little fiefdom here and has bullied everyone around so he can maintain control. I have never seen anything like this in my life. 

Your council Executive Board Members will be listed on your council's IRS Form 990.  You can find this relatively easily.

Also, your COR (and all COR's) is a voting member of the Board.  There is real power there, but it is rarely ever used because it is so difficult to get all COR's involved.  SE's like it that way.  They can steer their Boards (including recommending their simpatico be members of the Board) to their agenda much more easily without interference from those meddling COR's.

Edited December 10 by InquisitiveScouter

[Prime00]

Already checked the Council's 990 form. Bad thing is it doesn't have contact information which in the era of cell phones and all of that is getting difficult to acquire for people. Lots of little towns in the Council makes it difficult to look up things too. Makes me almost miss the good old days of landline phones and phone books. 

I don't think many of the CORs even attend those meetings or know much about what abilities they truly have. The heads of the Charter groups have a lot of power too and can put the brakes on a lot of things going on if they choose to as well. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

8 minutes ago, Prime00 said:

Already checked the Council's 990 form. Bad thing is it doesn't have contact information which in the era of cell phones and all of that is getting difficult to acquire for people. Lots of little towns in the Council makes it difficult to look up things too. Makes me almost miss the good old days of landline phones and phone books. 

I don't think many of the CORs even attend those meetings or know much about what abilities they truly have. The heads of the Charter groups have a lot of power too and can put the brakes on a lot of things going on if they choose to as well. 

Agreed.

But, realistically, you cannot expect council to give out contact info for the Board members.  You'll have to do the leg work of getting their contact info, if that is what you want.

I agree the ambiguity of today's contact-info-hiding world provides more cover to the SE...

[Prime00]

The transparency is definitely lacking in how things are handled. If things are done openly and fairly, generally speaking there is very little reason to conceal that type of information. It makes people wonder what else is going on that it needs to be hidden from everyone else. 

I am a member of a labor union. Unfortunately, our International has had its ethical challenges in the past and we are working to overcome those. It was a situation not completely unlike the Scouting organization here but the program is still worthwhile for people so its worth fighting for. Personally speaking, the concept of open meetings and transparent records is wonderful. We can attend any meeting (except personal and disciplinary type), review the minutes of meetings, view financial records, you name it. The potential for integrity and participation of everyone in open and fair dialog is a great thing. It does breed high quality leaders, which is one of the goals of our program overall. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

13 minutes ago, Prime00 said:

The potential for integrity and participation of everyone in open and fair dialog is a great thing. It does breed high quality leaders, which is one of the goals of our program overall. 

Yes, potential.  And you have hit on the great failing of the professional side of the organization.

Integrity, service, and excellence should be the mantra for BSA.  It isn't.  Would that it were so.

When I served, there was a strong push on core values:

CORE VALUES

The common bond that unifies us all. We live and serve with a commitment to three core values.

• INTEGRITY FIRST

  An Airman is a person of integrity, courage and conviction. They must be willing to control their impulses and exercise courage, honesty and accountability in order to do what is right even when no one is looking.

• SERVICE BEFORE SELF

  An Airman’s professional duties take precedence over personal desires. Every Airman is expected to have the discipline to follow rules, exhibit self-control and possess respect for the beliefs, authority and worth of others.

• EXCELLENCE IN ALL WE DO

  An Airman strives for continual improvement in self and service in order to propel the Air Force further and to achieve greater accomplishment and performance for themselves and their community.

[SSScout]

Can you say ""Owassipe " ?    We have had this conversation many times.  Had the same conversation in the Potomac Area Council of the American Youth Hostels, once upon a time. Seems we had a "volunteer" who found out that real estate was a profitable pursuit, and the AYH dealt in old properties as a "non-profit" (!) so he "volunteered" to help acquire an old hotel....  The local AYH council had to join forces and the volunteer was officially dropped from membership. 

Here in Scouter dot com land , we had a wonderful time learning about the great Scout Reservation of Owasippe.  Seems the local Scout Council had plans to sell the camp and (among other things) reallocate  funds/property....   The various Scouters got the CORs together and held the people involved to task...   

 You can look it up.  The camp still exists. 

Perhaps (perhaps? ) there is real estate involved .

[jcousino]

The sad thing is that they will most likely try again when there are fewer people watching out to make an uproar, and they are in more dire states (never fixed the bad management) It will be sold just not today.