UK vs BSA Leadership

[Eagle1993]

We have discussed, in the past, the differences between UK scout leadership (open meetings, smaller board, etc.) and BSA.  UK Scouting has seen record membership growth since 2013, though it was impacted by Covid (and now since seen a bounce).  BSA ...well, you have seen our numbers.

Then ... I look at what is going on in the UK (just the first few videos I found):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1V4THmgTEQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBH8Mzf65iI

https://twitter.com/BearGrylls/status/1488554069341917189

If you watch the last video, there are 10,000 people who are attending a Jubilee party.  This isn't a dedicated scout celebration, this was a celebration where scouts were featured.  During the scout segment, Bear Grylls drops in on a rope from the ceiling.  

Looking at the UK, you frequently see Kate Middleton (who actually volunteered for a Cub Pack) wearing the neckerchief and talking about scouts frequently.  Matt Hyde is out, generating media and positive messaging about scouts.

Now I look to BSA.  Our national leadership is completely absent from national media.  I have see no ability to get scouts highlighted at major events (how about the super bowl, NBA, MLB, NHL, PGA, New Years Eve, Oscars, etc.)   They, for the most part are absent outside dedicated scout stories (which are limited).  

Where are our Bear Grylls, Kate Middleton, etc. ambassadors?  Bear Grylls was named Chief Scout at 34.  Young, energetic, media savvy. 

While Twitter is definitely not the only method to measure social media footprint of our leaders, I think it isn't a bad metric.  From what I can see, Roger Mosby is the only one with an an account (in his name) and he has 14 followers.  Every leader in UK scouting has an account.  Jennie Price (their board chair) only has 113 followers.  The rest have over 1,000 each and many tweet about scouting frequently.

So... what impact does this have?  It gets kids and parents aware of scouting.  They realize it is a current activity .. not something from the 1950s.  (I had a parent who didn't realize Cub Scouts still existed).   It generates positive opinions of scouting.  Yes, I'm sure UK scouting has bad media from time to time ... but it is offset by the frequent positive messages.

While I don't think we need to fully copy the UK model, we should consider the path they took and the results they are seeing.  Let's get a Chief Scout executive in his or her mid 20s - 40s.  Someone with a great vision of scouting, understands today's parents & youth, is energetic and represents scouting ideals and today's media.  Then find appropriate ambassadors who are respected by the majority of Americans and can spread the idea of scouting.

In general, most parents I have talked to have a slightly positive opinion about scouting.  However, other activities typically rank much higher in terms of importance.  Creating a national narrative about the values of scouting could change that.

 

[Tron]

Good points ... except ... I have to touch on this Bear Grylls thing.

There really isn't a young American who is competent enough in survival to be a media facing brand ambassador. Could we find someone the same age or younger than Bear Grylls that has more competency? Absolutely. If we wanted to go the route of a brand ambassador like the UK we actually need an older survivalist. Older survivalists are just better, more experienced, more proven, and IMHO better at explaining why you do things the way they do it and why it leads to survival over death. That being said, any truly competent survivalist that BSA national could get would constantly lock horns with the national staff over our programming.  

 

Who should BSA get as a brand ambassador? Sadly Les Stroud is Canadian and out of the running ... Dan Wowak? Everyone else that I can think of is significantly older and more experienced. 

[sierracharliescouter]

Quote

There really isn't a young American who is competent enough in survival to be a media facing brand ambassador. 

Are you sure? Even if there isn't, why not create one? Do you really think none of the BSA alumni from the past 10 years have that ability? Better yet, it should be one should be both a man and a woman. If they exist, YouTube is where you'd find them, and where they should be promoting. It all shouldn't just be about survival, it should be about volunteerism and other traits that follow the Scout Law.

[MattR]

While a young, energetic, passionate person or people would make a great face to the BSA, I'd also like a young, energetic, passionate person as a president, CSE, or whatever the title should be. The bsa needs young parents attracted to the program.

[RememberSchiff]

13 hours ago, sierracharliescouter said:

Are you sure? Even if there isn't, why not create one? Do you really think none of the BSA alumni from the past 10 years have that ability? Better yet, it should be one should be both a man and a woman. If they exist, YouTube is where you'd find them, and where they should be promoting. It all shouldn't just be about survival, it should be about volunteerism and other traits that follow the Scout Law.

Why not create one? 

Isn't this what we Scouters do, develop leaders? 

How many times have we thought one of our scouts should become President or our PLC should replace the National Council ?

My $0.01

[GrubKnot]

Lookup Creek Stewart. Survivalist/ Outdoors man with a media presence & he's an eagle.

[Tron]

18 hours ago, sierracharliescouter said:

Are you sure? Even if there isn't, why not create one? Do you really think none of the BSA alumni from the past 10 years have that ability? Better yet, it should be one should be both a man and a woman. If they exist, YouTube is where you'd find them, and where they should be promoting. It all shouldn't just be about survival, it should be about volunteerism and other traits that follow the Scout Law.

If you know so much, why don't you put forth a name? You have not, because none exists. I just looked up @GrubKnotsuggestion and most of Creek Stewarts classes are gimmick and media based to make revenue through the un-initiated. This is a tough nut to crack; who do you find with bonafidas that is young and energetic enough? Looking back at what the UK did, does BSA just go "screw it, the person isn't teaching so we just get a young face with energy and the best resume possible?

[HashTagScouts]

Doesn't have to be just one person, it can be many who are willing to be "brand ambassadors" of a sort. How many police officers, firefighters, professional athletes, etc. have been Scouts? Not just Eagles - and not even just in BSA. Let them tell their stories of what Scouting meant/means to them. it may not be their time at Philmont, it may be their time they worked on service project, or the times they spent replacing flags on the graves of veterans each year. There are two things that my son will talk about with anyone who will listen that are the highlights of his time in Scouting- the first was attending NOAC, the second was being present for a horse-drawn funeral procession that he witnessed during a troop trip to Arlington (he recalls that whole trip to DC, but that one experience is always the first thing he brings up talking about that trip).  Scouting can be a large, big world, and I think most of us like that it is. Do i want the outdoor experience (the "traditional scouting") part to be at the core for every youth that participates? Yes, I do. Will it be the most remarkable part for every youth? Not necessarily. Do I want every youth to obtain Eagle? Yes, I do. Has Scouting been a failure for them if they don't? No.

One thing I have kicked around at times when looking at BSA and how do we help improve the program through our adults is to look at the training. The BSA could do much better with this. In many parts of the world - and any of our Scouts UK folks, please tell me if I am off on this, but I believe this does apply in Scouts UK- at least one unit leader must have formal first aid training certification, and there are continuing education requirements. why do we not have this in the US? Seems logical we should want this required. When WFA became a requirement for units to conduct HA activities, I heard gasps at roundtable about it. I look around my council over the past decade (and, it vey well may not be the experience of everyone and their council), and we've had more individuals go through Wood Badge in that time than have completed IOLS training- far more. I'm not knocking WB, but if we can't get adults to go through the rudimentary outdoor training for the program, we are in real trouble of ever keeping a focus on the outdoor element of the program. 

Now, I've heard just about every excuse from adults on why they can't make it to the trainings. Keeping tabs on training requirements was always a headache as CC. I staffed training for my district/council, and felt guilty as heck whenever I had to say I wasn't available to help because something else on my calendar conflicted. But I also lamented why we can't have more individuals become trainers. Carving additional time into personal calendars is a real and credible excuse for folks not attending a training session- especially if they have to drive 3 hours one-way to the council camp that offers IOLS only two weekends a year. IOLS isn't some great mystical experience. and, many adult leaders that actively attend outdoor outings with their unit certainly can learn much of those skills that are learned through IOLS naturally, but why can't we have unit trainers? An individual from the unit attends IOLS as a participant, serves on staff for one district/councilwide IOLS weekend, and they have a knot to be an IOLS trainer.  

Just one suggestion for a random Friday, not a panacea. There isn't only one suggestion that exists that will keep the program flourishing for the next century. As one well-respected scouter mentor said to me year ago "There are three things that anyone outside of Scouting expects every kid who has been a Scout will know: how to perform first aid, how to start a fire, and how to fold a flag". I'm good if we all just got even half of the youth in the US to be able to fulfill even those things.   

[ThenNow]

23 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

Now I look to BSA.  Our national leadership is completely absent from national media.  I have see no ability to get scouts highlighted at major events (how about the super bowl, NBA, MLB, NHL, PGA, New Years Eve, Oscars, etc.)   They, for the most part are absent outside dedicated scout stories (which are limited).  

Where are our Bear Grylls, Kate Middleton, etc. ambassadors?  Bear Grylls was named Chief Scout at 34.  Young, energetic, media savvy. 

While Twitter is definitely not the only method to measure social media footprint of our leaders, I think it isn't a bad metric.  From what I can see, Roger Mosby is the only one with an an account (in his name) and he has 14 followers.  Every leader in UK scouting has an account.  Jennie Price (their board chair) only has 113 followers.  The rest have over 1,000 each and many tweet about scouting frequently.

So... what impact does this have?  It gets kids and parents aware of scouting.  They realize it is a current activity .. not something from the 1950s.

 

20 hours ago, sierracharliescouter said:

Are you sure? Even if there isn't, why not create one? Do you really think none of the BSA alumni from the past 10 years have that ability?

 

18 hours ago, MattR said:

While a young, energetic, passionate person or people would make a great face to the BSA, I'd also like a young, energetic, passionate person as a president, CSE, or whatever the title should be. The bsa needs young parents attracted to the program.

Relative outsider here, but someone who did what there was to do in Scouting (as a youth) and went on after I turned 18. Many here know that story and I won't reiterate it. A few thoughts and questions:

1. Has there every been a national leader who has not come up through the ranks or who has a significant background in Scouting? I know the new GC was not a Scout or Scouter. 

2. Who is BSA's PR firm? Did they have one prior to the CSA litigation and, again, who was it? If you don't have some sort of "outside" media consultant not constrained by the leadership bubble of the "Scouting way," that's a huge red flag. I was ED of a medium size non-profit in the late 90's and we had a marketing firm and a PR firm. Also, they were current and not old school.

3. My atypical Eagle project was a marketing slide presentation promoting summer camp, generally. I conceived it, took the photos, produced, executed and deployed it within the LC. It was complete with script, followup instructions and other guides for presenters who took the show on the road. From what a recall it was a big success. I still have some of the slides that didn't make it on the carousels. No one had thought of it before that, as far as I know. I felt like we did a poor job of promoting all we had going for us, even then.

4. I was awarded my Eagle in 1975 (earned in 1974), left Scouting in 1979 and never heard from anyone - nary a peep or a post card - since. The first contact was when I sent a letter to the Local SE and Mr. Mazzuca in 2008 telling them about my abuse, including naming my SM abuser. I received no response. 

5. I reached out again in 2019 and was put on the LC Executive Board as a donor. When the Chapter 11 case started and my name was appearing in print media, I was no longer on the letterhead.

6. I have continued to be baffled by the lack of engagement, "getting out front," and reading things that are low hanging fruit as far as marketing, promoting and interfacing with the NON-Scouting world. Failure to engage and invite survivors into the YP conversation is one of the absolutely glaring gaffs. 

That's all I have, for what it's worth. BSA needs to unstick itself from the past on many fronts or risk dying in that very mud.

Edited June 10, 2022 by ThenNow

[RememberSchiff]

On 6/9/2022 at 3:20 PM, Eagle1993 said:

We have discussed, in the past, the differences between UK scout leadership (open meetings, smaller board, etc.) and BSA.  UK Scouting has seen record membership growth since 2013, though it was impacted by Covid (and now since seen a bounce).  BSA ...well, you have seen our numbers.

Then ... I look at what is going on in the UK (just the first few videos I found):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1V4THmgTEQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBH8Mzf65iI

https://twitter.com/BearGrylls/status/1488554069341917189

If you watch the last video, there are 10,000 people who are attending a Jubilee party.  This isn't a dedicated scout celebration, this was a celebration where scouts were featured.  During the scout segment, Bear Grylls drops in on a rope from the ceiling.  

Looking at the UK, you frequently see Kate Middleton (who actually volunteered for a Cub Pack) wearing the neckerchief and talking about scouts frequently.  Matt Hyde is out, generating media and positive messaging about scouts.

Where are our Bear Grylls, Kate Middleton, etc. ambassadors?  Bear Grylls was named Chief Scout at 34.  Young, energetic, media savvy. 

 

IMHO, we are not in their league even though the BSA likely greatly outspends UK Scouting. Maybe Mr. Grylls and some of his ambassadors can recruit and train our new leaders for the reboot. There is even a precedent for this, recall the BSA started after a British scout guided a lost American through the fog!

As a start, we could ask to edit his video which already includes some Americans.

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by RememberSchiff
grammar

[Eagledad]

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

IMHO, we are not in their league even though the BSA likely greatly outspends UK Scouting. Maybe Mr. Grylls and some of his ambassadors can recruit and train our new leaders for the reboot. There is even a precedent for this, recall the BSA started after a British scout guided a lost American through the fog!

As a start, we could ask to edit his video which already includes some Americans.

 

I love this idea. But, you can tell me, haven't you (me) imagined that somehow you (me) was selected as part of a boots-on-the-ground team ofscouters teaching a new class of National Leaders. I (we) would do a very good job. We scouts have great imaginations. 

Barry

[RememberSchiff]

2 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I love this idea. But, you can tell me, haven't you (me) imagined that somehow you (me) was selected as part of a boots-on-the-ground team ofscouters teaching a new class of National Leaders. I (we) would do a very good job. We scouts have great imaginations. 

Barry

Yes, Barry with your knowledge, experience, and passion for Scouting, you would be a great choice!  👍

[scoutldr]

I nominate Mike Rowe.  He's an Eagle Scout and an expert at "Dirty Jobs".

[DuctTape]

There are plenty. I have met many, but they do not have tv shows so no one else knows of their names. Extrapolating to the entire country I am certain there are thousands of qualified young people who could fill the role.

If BSA wanted to, they could fund and create a show (start with youtube) to generate a media presence for the ambassador. This is not much different from what BSA did in its early days when authors wrote books and stories about scout patrols. These were not commissioned by BSA but they did not object to folks using "Boy Scouts" and other trademarks since it promoted the program. 

But, yes, there are many qualified young people who could do this. 

[Eagledad]

14 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Yes, Barry with your knowledge, experience, and passion for Scouting, you would be a great choice!  👍

We!
 

Barry