REBUILD, REBOUND, RECOVER

[Ojoman]

At the moment the school district that I live in has 9 elementary schools with enrollments of between 400 and 500 each. We have perhaps 1 pack left while there are enough students for each school to easily support a pack. This is a disaster. There are 10 school districts within our district borders and somewhere between 80 and 100 schools including private and parochial. We have a little over 40 total units in the district and the city schools have a 0% density because the 'Scoutreach' program fell apart years ago. Frankly, I doubt that the council will ever fully recover from a combination of mismanagement over the past 25 years at all levels from the council to the region/area/territory to national and the adverse environments including the attacks and revisions on and of our leadership/membership standards and the negative ads over the past couple of years that culminated in the national bankruptcy. I hope I am wrong. 

 

[Tron]

Scoutreach always befuddles me; I live in a suburban community that has extreme economic diversity and every time I ask about resources to ensure every family can afford the program/camp/etc ... I get an earnest "We'll discuss that later." that never leads to a discussion later. At this point my opinion of Scoutreach is that if you are poor and not in the inner city Scoutreach is not for you.

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, Tron said:

I get an earnest "We'll discuss that later." that never leads to a discussion later. At this point my opinion of Scoutreach is that if you are poor and not in the inner city Scoutreach is not for you.

They are hoping you will go away and quit asking questions.

And it is difficult to find out who Scoutreach IS for... well, in theory, I get it, but in practice, I cannot find any solid numbers to show a real impact.  And most references are pretty old.

You'd think, if this was a cornerstone program of BSA to reach a certain segment of the population, there'd be more horn-tooting about it.

[MikeS72]

1 hour ago, Tron said:

At this point my opinion of Scoutreach is that if you are poor and not in the inner city Scoutreach is not for you.

We have an active ScoutReach program in our area, which is most definitely suburban rather than inner city.

 

[Tron]

2 minutes ago, MikeS72 said:

We have an active ScoutReach program in our area, which is most definitely suburban rather than inner city.

 

Yeah I get that, I know that Scoutreach like your council has exists. I am just saying the Scoutreach in my council doesn't seem to work, or more accurately, even when asked about the information on how to leverage it is not being released.

[MattR]

I'm not sure scoutreach is an official program of the bsa anymore. There's nothing about it on the bsa website. Some councils have something called scoutreach but it might be a holdover from the old program. We talked about it a while ago and some councils are making it work. My guess is it takes funding and the right person to run it.

Just a hunch but that might be a better way to get units up and running than throwing a new parent into a room full of cubs.

 

[vol_scouter]

Scoutreach is for troops and packs in economically distressed neighborhoods.  The council usually covers the registration fee and, oftentimes, provides uniforms perhaps with some equipment as well.  With the challenges of covid that decreased the Scouts to participate in activities that raises money for the councils along with the effects of covid and chapter 11 on the number of Scouts has taxed council budgets.  Combine that with councils needing to make sizeable contributions to the chapter 11 settlement (though not paid, those funds are set aside for whenever a settlement is reached, if it is) there are fewer funds to pay for the increased registration fees that are decreased somewhat for Scoutreach.  Councils have been forced to curtail the number of Scoutreach youth or even suspend the program, hopefully for a short time only.

[Ojoman]

SCOUTREACH is generally an expensive program to run. Often a professional or a 'program aide' is charged with most or all of the steps of organizing and running a unit or units. With the registration fees now as high as they are along with other increased costs it is more and more unlikely that low income kids in inner city neighborhoods will have the opportunity to participate in Scouts. God bless those churches and other chartered partners in those areas that care enough to make the program accessible and affordable. Scouting can help to counter early dropouts, gangs, drugs, adolescent pregnancy's and anti social behaviors in general. We need it more now than ever. 

[fred8033]

On 5/25/2022 at 10:42 AM, 5thGenTexan said:

Honestly... I am kind of tired.  I have been an adult leader for 5 years and Scouts has been a major part of our life.  I have been a DL, CM, several committee positions.  I am now CC for the boy troop and girl troop.  

IMHO ... I think this is the exact problem killing scouting.  Kudos to @5thGenTexan.   IMHO, Cubs starting so young is burning out the adults and burning out families.  IMHO, the program should start in 3rd grade.  2nd grade is a gray area.  K & 1st are just wrong and damages the program and burns out the adults.  

Scouting should start when the scouts can socialize and be responsible.  Until then, let families have their time together.  Let them try out soccer and baseball and the other activities.  THEN, when they are ready, let them come to scouts.  

I think the biggest scouting killer is pushing scouting down to such young ages where parents treat scouting more like baby sitting and the benefits at that age are not that significant.  By the scouts get to the key ages that make huge differences, the whole family is burnt out on the program. 

Edited September 19, 2022 by fred8033

[vol_scouter]

8 hours ago, fred8033 said:

I think the biggest scouting killer is pushing scouting down to such young ages where parents treat scouting more like baby sitting and the benefits at that age are not that significant.  By the scouts get to the key ages that make huge differences, the whole family is burnt out on the program. 

National has third party research that shows that families are committing to activities in kindergarten that will guide the family time for the next several years, i.e. if the child is not in Scouting in kindergarten, there may never be time for Scouting.  This is the biggest reason for Lions and Tigers.  The programs do get a lot of interest and new members.

That said, starting so early for a program that can go all the way from kindergarten to high school seems like an enormous commitment.  

I do not disagree with your premise but do believe that this is a situation that is very complex and does not have a clearly correct solution.

How many children start Scouting as a Lion and end up an 18 year old in the program (and hopefully Eagle).  I doubt that it is a very large percentage.

[fred8033]

3 minutes ago, vol_scouter said:

National has third party research that shows that families are committing to activities in kindergarten that will guide the family time for the next several years, i.e. if the child is not in Scouting in kindergarten, there may never be time for Scouting.  This is the biggest reason for Lions and Tigers.  The programs do get a lot of interest and new members.

That said, starting so early for a program that can go all the way from kindergarten to high school seems like an enormous commitment.  

I do not disagree with your premise but do believe that this is a situation that is very complex and does not have a clearly correct solution.

How many children start Scouting as a Lion and end up an 18 year old in the program (and hopefully Eagle).  I doubt that it is a very large percentage.

I've heard about that research, but not seen it.  

I question reaching the conclusion from the research.  We may be losing opportunity with some families that become committed to other programs, but I think we lose far more from burn-out and from a too-early meaningless program.   

I see lots of families drop out of baseball, soccer and other activities after the first few years.  I'd argue that when a child enters 3rd grade, those parents are looking for something new, fresh and the next bigger step.  IMHO, that should be scouting with knives, fire, outdoors and shooting sports.  

Instead of waiting for the youth to be ready for the program, we've dumbed down the program to the point the program loses it's benefit and it's attraction.

 

[Eagle94-A1]

39 minutes ago, vol_scouter said:

How many children start Scouting as a Lion and end up an 18 year old in the program (and hopefully Eagle).  I doubt that it is a very large percentage.

None yet. Lions came out in 2018. So the first group is only Webelos I's. Got another 8-9 years to see the retention.

Now I would like to see the retention rates for that.

Closest we can get is Tigers to 18. That data should be available since Tigers was dropped from 2nd Grade to 1st Grade some time in the mid to late 1990s.

 

32 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

I've heard about that research, but not seen it.  

When has national EVER shown their research?

[vol_scouter]

2 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

When has national EVER shown their research?

Once again, this was not research from National but a third party.  The research is solid.

National has released much of their research but for many reasons have not released the raw data.

40 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

I've heard about that research, but not seen it.  

I question reaching the conclusion from the research.  We may be losing opportunity with some families that become committed to other programs, but I think we lose far more from burn-out and from a too-early meaningless program.   

I see lots of families drop out of baseball, soccer and other activities after the first few years.  I'd argue that when a child enters 3rd grade, those parents are looking for something new, fresh and the next bigger step.  IMHO, that should be scouting with knives, fire, outdoors and shooting sports.  

Instead of waiting for the youth to be ready for the program, we've dumbed down the program to the point the program loses it's benefit and it's attraction.

Once again, I do not disagree and am certain that some families get burned out early.  The issue is of magnitude in these discussions.  Are the early signups for Lions and Tigers really beneficial in the long run or would it be better to join later?  That is a thorny question that would take a huge and expensive survey to complete.

To me, the real issue is that all in Scouting see the Cub Scout programs as having particular starting points.  If Cub Scouts was easier to join for a year or two, leave for a year or two, and then return again, I think that the appeal could be increased.  In that case, neither the child nor the adult volunteer would feel like they are making such a long commitment but rather a commitment of a year at a time.

If we could likewise make Scouts BSA friendlier for coming and going, it might help us to inculcate the values of the Scout Oath and Law into many more children and youth.  Scouts BSA is harder to make it friendly and it has a nearly singular access point at about age 11.  A girl or boy who join much after age 11 could find themselves in a patrol of 11 & 12 year olds that teens usually do not like.

In my opinion, it is critical for growth of the movement to make it easier for youth to join whenever they wish and then to find the program accepting of them at whatever their age.

[HashTagScouts]

8 minutes ago, vol_scouter said:

If we could likewise make Scouts BSA friendlier for coming and going, it might help us to inculcate the values of the Scout Oath and Law into many more children and youth.  Scouts BSA is harder to make it friendly and it has a nearly singular access point at about age 11.  A girl or boy who join much after age 11 could find themselves in a patrol of 11 & 12 year olds that teens usually do not like.

In my opinion, it is critical for growth of the movement to make it easier for youth to join whenever they wish and then to find the program accepting of them at whatever their age.

If you assume all troops place all newly joined Scouts into a "New Scout Patrol", then you might be right. I have never been in a unit that would take a newly-joined 14 year old and put them into a NSP. Frankly, with the current YP tenting age requirements, you really can't. We'd always put them into the age appropriate patrol they joined, and it was up to the other kids in that patrol to "bring them up to speed" and teach them. If the kid wanted to advance, the PL and other patrol members helped to teach them skills.

I don't agree it is inherently difficult for a kid to join at a later age due to limitations of the program. Limitations of the troop, possibly. Scouts BSA is not supposed to be an Advancement-above-all-else program, as has been discussed many times on the forum- Advancement is a method, not an aim. Realistically a kid joining at 14 has plenty of time to advance to Eagle, if they desired to. I'd rather focus far more on the fun aspect, and always keep the focus on getting kids to First Class by the time they are done, as those are the skills that really are not learned at school or really have an easy outlet to learn through other organizations. Time-management and service-project participation can be learned at a later point in life, the Star-
Eagle track is ultimately all about giving youth an earlier exposure to it to try and help jump-start them over their peers for readiness as adults. If a troop is too fixated on regimented structure, then it is really not going to be an ultimately welcoming place- to a newbie, nor to a transfer.

[vol_scouter]

@HashTagScouts  Even if the is not a new Scout Patrol, the older girl or boy will be learning skills with younger youth while their friends are doing more advanced activities.  To adults, the distinctions are small but for youth, they can be substantial.  I have seen this many times, but others may have seen such situations evolve differently.