REBUILD, REBOUND, RECOVER

[yknot]

35 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

If the school system allows NO ONE to come in, then Scouts can't recruit either. Yep, that is system policy as outside groups  take away form "teaching time."

Districts around here don't allow anyone to send home materials or enter the school to recruit members. However, at the pack level we were allowed to hold den meetings after school in empty classrooms. When we had leaders who could do that, it was the best recruitment possible. Scouts were interacting with the school community, visibly doing service projects and having fun. The leadership mix has changed and now most den meetings are on the weekends and our relationship with the schools and recruitment levels have deteriorated. 

[Ojoman]

5 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I agree completely. But when you are not allowed in the schools to recruit, eventually your pack ages out or moves to a thriving one when they get too few to recharter.

Depends upon the council as I have found out. Some councils, for whatever reason, do NOT want units doing their own recruiting and round ups. Instead they set up everything, and tell us when they want us to be at the round up. And in other councils each unit has assigned schools, usually to get Scouts int eh same neighborhood to be together, because of bussing, multiple packs recruit form the same school. It is crazy.

If the school system allows NO ONE to come in, then Scouts can't recruit either. Yep, that is system policy as outside groups  take away form "teaching time."

You have a school board, PTO/PTA and direct access to administration. I have never had a school refuse to talk with me and once they understand the benefits to the kids (we are both in the business of preparing kids for the future and to be good citizens) we were always able to work out a mutually agreeable solution. If even one grade brings in a fireman, EMT or police officer to speak to kids, guess what, that represents an outside group. Many schools bring in people from humane or SPCA groups. It's all about relationships and too often we have let those languish.  

5 hours ago, Tron said:

I believe the law being spoken of is the Equal Access Act of 1984. 

Correct but often referenced as the scout access act. 

 

[Eagle94-A1]

19 hours ago, Ojoman said:

You have a school board, PTO/PTA and direct access to administration. I have never had a school refuse to talk with me and once they understand the benefits to the kids (we are both in the business of preparing kids for the future and to be good citizens) we were always able to work out a mutually agreeable solution. If even one grade brings in a fireman, EMT or police officer to speak to kids, guess what, that represents an outside group. Many schools bring in people from humane or SPCA groups. It's all about relationships and too often we have let those languish.  

Correct but often referenced as the scout access act. 

 

As I stated, this council does not want units contacting anyone the school system and it has been like this since before I got here. As for outside groups, I will repeat, NO OUTSIDE GROUPS are allowed. This law was brought up once or twice when we had a DE, and this is what he was told. And from what I get from the Sxcouts, it is enforced.

Trust me we had relationships prior to the current superintendent. Now everything needs to be focused on "teaching time."

[Ojoman]

6 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

As I stated, this council does not want units contacting anyone the school system and it has been like this since before I got here. As for outside groups, I will repeat, NO OUTSIDE GROUPS are allowed. This law was brought up once or twice when we had a DE, and this is what he was told. And from what I get from the Sxcouts, it is enforced.

Trust me we had relationships prior to the current superintendent. Now everything needs to be focused on "teaching time."

Sad that your council effectively shuts units out from building school relationships especially since National promotes the adopt a school program and encourages as much interaction between school districts, individual schools, administrators, school boards and pto/ptas. Sounds wrong but if that is the way it is... https://www.scouting.org/adopt-a-school/

 

[mrjohns2]

I think some of those ideas are where someone at national thinks up an idea, pays someone to create a webpage, and sits back thinking they made a big improvement. I wonder how many actually do “BSA Adopt a School”. 

[Eagle94-A1]

Tell me about it. We have folks who not only know school board members, but some who have been friends with them since elementary school. We have folks who work in the school system, are part of PTOs, various parents' booster clubs, etc. But council does not want us doign anything.,

[Eagle1993]

On 5/29/2022 at 4:31 PM, Ojoman said:

You have a school board, PTO/PTA and direct access to administration. I have never had a school refuse to talk with me and once they understand the benefits to the kids (we are both in the business of preparing kids for the future and to be good citizens) we were always able to work out a mutually agreeable solution. If even one grade brings in a fireman, EMT or police officer to speak to kids, guess what, that represents an outside group. Many schools bring in people from humane or SPCA groups. It's all about relationships and too often we have let those languish.  

On 5/29/2022 at 11:03 AM, Tron said:

Our elementary school has banned scouts during school hours.  We cannot advertise for scouting in any official school documents.  Since PTO is independent, we were able to post on their FB page which has limited impact.  For several years we were able to put yard signs between the sidewalk & street ... but the school has now banned that and removed/threw away our signs (without notifying us).  Our DE was found on school grounds during the day to drop off some flyers to a teacher (who was a Cub Scout leader).  The principal saw him and told him to leave immediately (he told me she threatened to call the police, I'm not sure that is true).  It has gotten crazy.

 We spend over $1K per year to rent rooms at the school for meetings and get no support.  The scout access act doesn't help as they treat all non school activities the same.  When I brought up that they did some announcement for girl scouts (and asked if they could do the same for cub scouts) they stopped the girl scout announcements.  Many years ago our Pack was charted by this school.  However, after Dale they dropped us and we have never been able to reestablish any relationship.

I don't understand councils that would prohibit school interactions.  I see the flip side where recruiting is incredibly difficult when you are blocked from the school.  Councils should encourage units to work with schools who are interested.

[Tron]

4 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Our elementary school has banned scouts during school hours.  We cannot advertise for scouting in any official school documents.  Since PTO is independent, we were able to post on their FB page which has limited impact.  For several years we were able to put yard signs between the sidewalk & street ... but the school has now banned that and removed/threw away our signs (without notifying us).  Our DE was found on school grounds during the day to drop off some flyers to a teacher (who was a Cub Scout leader).  The principal saw him and told him to leave immediately (he told me she threatened to call the police, I'm not sure that is true).  It has gotten crazy.

 We spend over $1K per year to rent rooms at the school for meetings and get no support.  The scout access act doesn't help as they treat all non school activities the same.  When I brought up that they did some announcement for girl scouts (and asked if they could do the same for cub scouts) they stopped the girl scout announcements.  Many years ago our Pack was charted by this school.  However, after Dale they dropped us and we have never been able to reestablish any relationship.

I don't understand councils that would prohibit school interactions.  I see the flip side where recruiting is incredibly difficult when you are blocked from the school.  Councils should encourage units to work with schools who are interested.

So you are in a situation where you already have equal access. You equally have no access. Keep your eyes and ears open, and document the access that they allow, then revoke when you ask, build a case, then drop the hammer on the school district.

[Ojoman]

School administrators and teachers are paid with tax dollars. They are public servants and while it is important to avoid disrupting teaching time, announcements or a flyer distribution at the end of the day once or twice a year doesn't seem to me to be a huge disruption. On the equal access act there are only a few (4 or 5) groups that might ever request access. This is not a huge problem. As a taxpayer that is dinged thousands each year to support local schools, I'd surely make my voice heard and I'd encourage other parents and taxpayers to do the same. Meanwhile CRT and other 'stupid' social engineering teachings are being brought into the schools. My grandson is doing common core and when his dad showed him a better way to do math he said, 'why don't they teach it this way in school, this is so easy'. There is an agenda going on that isn't helping prepare our kids for the future. Too many sheep willing to just shut up and follow and allow administrators to act like the schools are their personal domains.  

 

[yknot]

I think it's kind of pointless to fight with the school district if they don't want to provide access. It probably has more to do with parent complaints than anything else. Just look for other venues. We were blocked from public schools but had good luck at private schools and getting connected with the local home school community. We also have excellent relationships with local sports leagues and do some cross recruitment there. Which is why I think the anti sports mentality so frequently encountered in BSA is counterproductive. 

 

[Eagle1993]

2 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

School administrators and teachers are paid with tax dollars.

Our school administrators report to the school board.  The school board translates the community beliefs into standards for the school to meet.  Taxpayers in my community would likely support keeping BSA out if there was a political argument.  The argument would be the DRP.

In terms of schooling, we have the highest test scores in the state and typically have National Merit finalists and kids going to most Ivy League schools.  My son is on track to take BC calc his junior year and has been offered much more rigor in schooling and academics than I was every provided back in the 80s/90s. That said, I have issues with our school's lack of commitment to vocational ed, sole focus on test scores, excessive rules based on "safety"  and lack of partnership with great organizations (like BSA).  However, it is the school system that the community wants (pump out great test scores, get ranked in various magazines and see the resulting property values skyrocket).

My point wasn't that there are options to change my school (unless BSA drops DRP).  My point is that there are schools open to including BSA and councils should encourage units to interact with those schools.

[RememberSchiff]

12 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

My point wasn't that there are options to change my school (unless BSA drops DRP).  My point is that there are schools open to including BSA and councils should encourage units to interact with those schools.

Legal mandates and DRP aside, local troops should develop cooperating partnerships with community schools as in lets join and  help our community. This can be school cleanup projects, Eagle Projects, recycling measures (e.g. Crayon Initiative not sure it still exists).  Our school principles have been grateful, cooperative, and inclined NOT to burden the Superintendent or School Board with details.

Some BSA references which may help

https://www.scouting.org/adopt-a-school/

School Access Training Module (2017 draft, I don't know if there is an update)

https://scoutingwire.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/522-060_17SchoolIssuesFPO.pdf

My $0.02,

[Tron]

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

Legal mandates and DRP aside, local troops should develop cooperating partnerships with community schools as in lets join and  help our community. This can be school cleanup projects, Eagle Projects, recycling measures (e.g. Crayon Initiative not sure it still exists).  Our school principles have been grateful, cooperative, and inclined NOT to burden the Superintendent or School Board with details.

Some BSA references which may help

https://www.scouting.org/adopt-a-school/

School Access Training Module (2017 draft, I don't know if there is an update)

https://scoutingwire.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/522-060_17SchoolIssuesFPO.pdf

My $0.02,

At the Troop level the Equal Access Act works every time. Every single club and sport in any public school has visitors, and leadership sourced from outside the school that are affiliated with a EAA qualifying entity. If your local school has a football or basketball team (they always have volunteer coaches affiliated with some other entity) you're a shoe in for getting back into the school; heck my local HS and JH football team has an affiliation with the NFL. 😛

[Tron]

3 hours ago, yknot said:

I think it's kind of pointless to fight with the school district if they don't want to provide access. It probably has more to do with parent complaints than anything else. Just look for other venues. We were blocked from public schools but had good luck at private schools and getting connected with the local home school community. We also have excellent relationships with local sports leagues and do some cross recruitment there. Which is why I think the anti sports mentality so frequently encountered in BSA is counterproductive. 

 

It is totally worth it to debate this with school districts. We have a great program that can help any and all youth. If a school is letting anyone else in I at least want to get a poster in the school, or a recruitment sign outside. I don't even need class time for a scout talk. BSA says a prospective Scout needs to see a BSA advertisement 7 times before they start thinking about joining; why not let those prospective Scouts walk past a poster every morning and afternoon in and out of school and start thinking about the option.

[Ojoman]

3 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

Our school administrators report to the school board.  The school board translates the community beliefs into standards for the school to meet.  Taxpayers in my community would likely support keeping BSA out if there was a political argument.  The argument would be the DRP.

In terms of schooling, we have the highest test scores in the state and typically have National Merit finalists and kids going to most Ivy League schools.  My son is on track to take BC calc his junior year and has been offered much more rigor in schooling and academics than I was every provided back in the 80s/90s. That said, I have issues with our school's lack of commitment to vocational ed, sole focus on test scores, excessive rules based on "safety"  and lack of partnership with great organizations (like BSA).  However, it is the school system that the community wants (pump out great test scores, get ranked in various magazines and see the resulting property values skyrocket).

My point wasn't that there are options to change my school (unless BSA drops DRP).  My point is that there are schools open to including BSA and councils should encourage units to interact with those schools.

I went to one of those schools that pumped out college bound students, so did my sons. My oldest decided to go to the BOCE's (vo-tech) and his guidance counselor was so pleased. He said he saw so many kids apply and go off to colleges when it wasn't right for them. The expense and time along with many 'washing out' of college. I read where about 80% of graduates end up in jobs other than their major. My son is now a supervisor and makes good money. Both boys benefited from Scouts... it's a shame when schools deny their students enrichment opportunities through partnerships with groups like Scouting, 4-H, jr. civil air and others.