Convert “stand alone” Venturing Crews into Scouts BSA Venturing “Patrols”?

[Cburkhardt]

40 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

These are the people worth holding on to!!!

 

SMH

 

SMH x 2

 

They could, but there is an ENORMOUS disconnect between the local professional side of the house and the volunteer side of the house.  A connection from National to local volunteers is non-existent, but that is, I believe, as it should be.

I know we volunteers are valued at the grass roots hometown level (the youth and parents we serve).  And I know that we are not valued by my current local council.  The ONLY impact you are going to have, on a large scale, with ANY youth, is THROUGH THE ADULT VOLUNTEERS.

Disconnect between local-national and volunteer-professional has been vanishing.  I am sure you have good reasons to say some of these things.  We all form views based on experience.  My experience is that there is not much disconnect across the movement, whether it is the local-national or volunteer-professional issue.  I am a dual unit leader (Troop and Ship) and yet have very productive conversations with volunteers and professionals across all levels of the movement.  Of course I restrict my communications to matters appropriate to the person I am conversing with and watch the frequency.  I am also broadly known as a person who performs.  I am known as a person who offers to “fix things” rather than complain.  Those are just my approaches, but my calls are always welcomed and returned.  They respect me as much as the mother I just Emailed to share I just arranged a scholarship for her son.

Now is a great time for people to re-evaluate these issues and how they personally operate.  We are moving from survival mode to work-out mode, all on the way to normalcy in a couple of years.  The only logical way to behave during this is to be flexible, positive and helpful.  We can all do this and will be better for it.

[RememberSchiff]

In my neck of woods, we have had a disconnect from Council and National over the past two years or so, some say it was covid,  bankruptcy, or councils pre-occupied with merging or selling camps.

In that time, my unit managed and re-evaluated what we needed from Council and even if we need a Council.  I would say getting a  Eagle BOR and paperwork processed was our biggest problem with Council.  We ran our own summer camping.  Our  unit needs now are less and different. 

My $0.01

[InquisitiveScouter]

32 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

Disconnect between local-national and volunteer-professional has been vanishing.  I am sure you have good reasons to say some of these things.  We all form views based on experience.  My experience is that there is not much disconnect across the movement, whether it is the local-national or volunteer-professional issue.  I am a dual unit leader (Troop and Ship) and yet have very productive conversations with volunteers and professionals across all levels of the movement.  Of course I restrict my communications to matters appropriate to the person I am conversing with and watch the frequency.  I am also broadly known as a person who performs.  I am known as a person who offers to “fix things” rather than complain.  Those are just my approaches, but my calls are always welcomed and returned.  They respect me as much as the mother I just Emailed to share I just arranged a scholarship for her son.

Now is a great time for people to re-evaluate these issues and how they personally operate.  We are moving from survival mode to work-out mode, all on the way to normalcy in a couple of years.  The only logical way to behave during this is to be flexible, positive and helpful.  We can all do this and will be better for it.

Great thoughts!  I should forward those to our local council.

I, too, am a 

33 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

a person who offers to “fix things” rather than complain.

But, rather than helping me to fix things, our council SE asked me for money, without a thought or recognition for how valuable my time is.  And when I said no, and did not support FoS, he removed me (and others) from our District and Council positions.  There is more to the story, of course, but, I tell you, my behavior throughout the events, has been courteous and professional towards them, without reciprocity.

I even asked him on the phone what it would take to restore the relationship.  His reply, "Support FoS."  Again, I refused.  So, I pour my efforts into supporting our unit and other units.  Because we have no DE, no functioning Commissioner Corps, and a camp in shambles....

I literally spend 30-40 hours per week volunteering for Scouting.   Please spare me the off-handed indictment, brother.

 

[fred8033]

41 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

Disconnect between local-national and volunteer-professional has been vanishing.  I am sure you have good reasons to say some of these things.  We all form views based on experience.  My experience is that there is not much disconnect across the movement, whether it is the local-national or volunteer-professional issue.  I am a dual unit leader (Troop and Ship) and yet have very productive conversations with volunteers and professionals across all levels of the movement.  Of course I restrict my communications to matters appropriate to the person I am conversing with and watch the frequency.  I am also broadly known as a person who performs.  I am known as a person who offers to “fix things” rather than complain.  Those are just my approaches, but my calls are always welcomed and returned.  They respect me as much as the mother I just Emailed to share I just arranged a scholarship for her son.

Now is a great time for people to re-evaluate these issues and how they personally operate.  We are moving from survival mode to work-out mode, all on the way to normalcy in a couple of years.  The only logical way to behave during this is to be flexible, positive and helpful.  We can all do this and will be better for it.

I don't know you, but your story sounds similar to a several scouters I've met.   Most started at the unit level.  Once shown effective, they often help at district / council.  A few are plugged in at the national level also directly contributing to key areas.  ...  Given the number of councils and volunteers and I've run into several plugged in higher, I'd expect this is a broader pattern that you represent.  ...  From what I remember, that's how the G2A 2011 re-write was done.  I was not plugged in to that effort.  

[Cburkhardt]

Inquisitive:  No offense appears or is intended in my posting.  I only told my own story without reference to you, so I fail to understand the rage you expressed toward me.  

The mysteries of human interaction are such that I would never try to advise on your negative relationship with your Scout Executive.  I don’t profess to know much about humanity, but one thing I do believe is outside of intentional, repetitive criminals, nobody is 100% wrong or evil.  It looks like you have established the guardrails of your relationship with the man with your views on FOS.

I hope your Scout Executive and you can develop a better relationship.

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, Cburkhardt said:

Disconnect between local-national and volunteer-professional has been vanishing.

Are you serious?

Several years ago BSA had a poll in which 94% of the respondents were either against (18%) or strongly against (76%) the proposal, yet BSA did it anyway. 94% OPPOSED AND THEY DID IT ANYWAY! (emphasis). National has repeatedly announced membership increases AT THE LAST MINUTE. One year they even told units to hold off on rechartering until they finalized the price. People repeatedly complained because units had already created budgets, and  round ups were going on. Again, National was told repeatedly to give more notice to help the boots on the ground prepare, especially the lower socio-economic families.  Have they listened? No. The Churchill Plan came completely out of the blue, with some elements shocking National level volunteers who should have been part of the conversation. Ditto with mortgaging Philmont.

Friend of mine worked his way up from local Scouter, to district/council Scouter, to being on the National 411 committee for Cub Scouts. He had a hand in the June 2015- December 2016 Cub Scout Program. He got input from local Cub Scouters for ideas, and one of my ideas made it into advancement. But National changed the program mid year and without talking to members of the 411 committee who created the program.

So no, National professionals ARE NOT listening to volunteers. 

In my council, we have longtime, dedicated volunteers quitting because they have been ignored by, yelled at, cursed out by professionals. Worse, we have volunteers being removed from positions because they are raising questions and concerns that folks in the field are having, and the professionals do not like it one bit. And this has been going on since before I joined the council way back when as a DE. One of the many reasons why I left the profession was because of the attitude towards volunteers.

So no, council professionals ARE NOT listening to volunteers. 

As for my background, it is extensive. I too am "known as a person who performs."  Last district camporee ALMOST had as many folks at it as the last council camporee. Only reason it was not larger was because we reached capacity and had to shut down registration 3 weeks earlier than anticipated. When I was doing Cub Scout day camp, I doubled attendance within 2 years. I have restarted OA chapters, and lodges AIA committees. My record is one of the reasons why I have been repeatedly asked to become the district commissioner, recruited to run district and council events, and was even asked to return to the profession as a DE.  But having been yelled at, cursed out at, and ignored, I only go above unit level, especially now as SM, when my boys ask me to. They were the ones who asked me to run district camporee. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Eagle94-A1

[Cburkhardt]

Fred:  You are kind to say those things.  I certainly have been told and know I am not perfect.  But, if it is one thing I think I do right in Scouting and elsewhere is to offer to fix things.  I am careful about how often I say this, because the result is that I am often taken-up on my offer.  These end up being unseen tasks that are usually time-absorbing, but the satisfaction in seeing the anonymous fix in-place makes it worth it.  This is not the formula to get the Silver Buffalo.  However, it gets around that I am a positive man of my word.  Maybe that is why people generally return my calls.

[Cburkhardt]

94-A1:  I do not question your experience or representations.  However, since starting as a very active adult scouter in 1981, I have not witnessed yelling, screaming, cursing and other such behavior you discuss.  That does not mean I have not witnessed or personally experienced deep conflict and disappointment.  We each have our own experiences and viewpoints about things that are troubling, but I believe we do not have fundamental disconnects because most of us understand each other.  When I was council president of a newly-merged council I had to lead evaluation and ultimate closure of 4 of our 7 legacy camps.  We had vastly too much property and just could not fund it.  I personally interacted with thousands in the process and emailed with every adult or youth member registering a viewpoint (many of whom disagreed with what they accurately assumed were decisions I would lead).  However, throughout the entire process there was not one single negative media account, raised voice or disagreeable incident.  Yes, the camps did close and many were personally disappointed, but there was no “disconnect”, because people understood everything that was happening and why.  I find this to be in the DNA of Scouting.

[InquisitiveScouter]

50 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

rage

???

[Eagle94-A1]

If i have not deleted them, i will share the emails and texts.

[Tron]

I think going to a Venture Patrol/combined with the Senior Patrol might be the most practical; however, what about the Order of the Arrow absorbing Venturing to some degree? 

So hear me out, this is a longshot, OA is struggling to engage it's current membership, and to gain new membership. OA due to cultural appropriation etc ... is changing a lot and losing part of what makes it unique amongst Scouting. So what if OA absorbs venturing to become the new fellowship part of OA and makes people really look at wanting to become an OA member to get the benefit of having lodge based co-ed programing that exists past age 18?

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, Tron said:

I think going to a Venture Patrol/combined with the Senior Patrol might be the most practical; however, what about the Order of the Arrow absorbing Venturing to some degree? 

So hear me out, this is a longshot, OA is struggling to engage it's current membership, and to gain new membership. OA due to cultural appropriation etc ... is changing a lot and losing part of what makes it unique amongst Scouting. So what if OA absorbs venturing to become the new fellowship part of OA and makes people really look at wanting to become an OA member to get the benefit of having lodge based co-ed programing that exists past age 18?

Love the idea...would you have to be elected to be a Venture Scout?

[Tron]

7 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Love the idea...would you have to be elected to be a Venture Scout?

No more like, Venturing is now part of OA, and it gives the Scouts something more to reach for to want to be in the OA. 

[fred8033]

On 5/28/2022 at 8:01 PM, Tron said:

So what if OA absorbs venturing to become the new fellowship part of OA and makes people really look at wanting to become an OA member to get the benefit of having lodge based co-ed programing that exists past age 18?

My initial reaction was a mismatch.  OA being an elected selection of scouts across many units.  Venturing being yet another unit type.  Not parallel concepts.  ... Also, OA is very much about giving back; service; often to local camps.  

Perhaps, OA could benefit from a partnership with older scout programs like venturing; a symbiotic relationship.  Venturing would benefit from visibility.  ... I don't think it solves the fundamental instability of specific venturing units. 

[Eagle94-A1]

1. I have deleted texts and emails. And I cannot find the letter I sent to a SE selection committee about one of the potential candidates.

2. For me the OA lost its uniqueness when they changed their election policies. At the time, I said it would be a slow death. I admit I was wrong as it is taking longer to die than I thought. But I also know a lot of folks are fighting tooth and nail, to preserve the OA. I was in that number until unit responsibilities took over. From the outside looking in, OA is a pale shadow of itself.

3. The Venture Patrol concept has been tried in one shape of form multiple times. If memory serves, at 14 you automatically became an Explorer in the 1950s, and troops had an explorer patrol. You had the Leadership Corps in the 1970s and 80s. Then the Venture Crew/Patrol in the 1990s to sometime in the 2000s. I can speak only for Leadership Corps and Venture crew/patrols as I have experience with those. If you read the literature, they were suppose to be able to do things separate from the troop. In reality they didn't AND THIS WAS WHEN PATROLS COULD CAMP WITHOUT ADULTS! ( emphasis). Unless you have a large troop with lots of willing adults, I cannot see folks doing 2 camp outs a month.

Also something would need to get the Scouts interested. The Venture Pins idea didn't work.