Going by the Book, or Changing to Encourage Participation

[mrjohns2]

On 5/28/2022 at 8:18 PM, Tron said:

If we change Scouting away from outdoor skills and leadership what does it become?

Are outdoor skills in the vision, mission, oath, or law of Scouts?

[fred8033]

2 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

Are outdoor skills in the vision, mission, oath, or law of Scouts?

Not explicitly.  Rather, it's inherently the key part of scouting and has been that way since scouting was created.  Without that element, scouting is not distinctly different from many other groups.  

[Eagle94-A1]

"OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING." William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt, 3rd ed. SMHB

"SCOUTING IS OUTING!" William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt

[ramanous]

Outdoor Program is one of the eight official Methods of Scouting, which are derived from the Vision & Mission of Scouting.  Other methods include Patrol, Advancement, Leadership, Uniform.

https://troopleader.scouting.org/scoutings-aims-and-methods/

Now, how do you get other Scouters to care about implementing all eight methods? Should they be implemented with equal weight, or based on troop priority?

[MattR]

21 hours ago, ramanous said:

Outdoor Program is one of the eight official Methods of Scouting, which are derived from the Vision & Mission of Scouting.  Other methods include Patrol, Advancement, Leadership, Uniform.

https://troopleader.scouting.org/scoutings-aims-and-methods/

Now, how do you get other Scouters to care about implementing all eight methods? Should they be implemented with equal weight, or based on troop priority?

The problem with the methods is that they don't include what youth are really looking for. All scouts want fun with friends and older scouts want a unique challenge (high adventure, working with younger scouts, service, it depends on the scout). To make scouting work they also need to learn how to create this on their own. That's not simple. It's more than organizing a campout every month.

It includes understanding what motivates the scouts, and that's an age old problem. Most people fear the unknown yet every adventure includes the unknown. 

[Eagledad]

8 minutes ago, MattR said:

The problem with the methods is that they don't include what youth are really looking for. All scouts want fun with friends and older scouts want a unique challenge (high adventure, working with younger scouts, service, it depends on the scout). To make scouting work they also need to learn how to create this on their own. That's not simple. It's more than organizing a campout every month.

It includes understanding what motivates the scouts, and that's an age old problem. Most people fear the unknown yet every adventure includes the unknown. 

I agree that developing creative habits is certainly part of the challenge. Creativity is a skill many youth don't practice before they join the troop and patrol method expects a lot from it.

I also think the administrative tasks can overwhelm the adventure. I find that if the patrol meeting (patrol corners and PLC meeting) are more about planning and less about talking or learning a skill for the next adventure, they get tedious and boring. The challenge is finding the balance. And the scouts don't have to be moving to be interested. One meeting that my sons really liked was when we had a gun expert visit to talk about the parts of a gun and how to handle them safely. There was no activity for the scouts to hold the gun or discuss the safety. Just listening to the expert had their attention. I am sure they talked about that meeting a school the next day.

Scouting is hard.

Barry

 

[Tron]

28 minutes ago, MattR said:

The problem with the methods is that they don't include what youth are really looking for. All scouts want fun with friends and older scouts want a unique challenge (high adventure, working with younger scouts, service, it depends on the scout). To make scouting work they also need to learn how to create this on their own. That's not simple. It's more than organizing a campout every month.

It includes understanding what motivates the scouts, and that's an age old problem. Most people fear the unknown yet every adventure includes the unknown. 

But the Scouting program is what it is, the outdoors is a key part of what this Scouting is. Scouts are drawn to Scouting over other programs because it is an outdoors based program. Many Scouters gravitate towards volunteering our time because it is an outdoors based program.

 

Quote

"A week of camp life is worth six months of theoretical teaching in the meeting room."

-- Baden-Powell

[ramanous]

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The problem with the methods is that they don't include what youth are really looking for.

Well, I think it depends on how the methods are implemented which I think is the point you're making in the second part of the statement...

Quote

All scouts want fun with friends and older scouts want a unique challenge (high adventure, working with younger scouts, service, it depends on the scout). To make scouting work they also need to learn how to create this on their own. That's not simple. It's more than organizing a camp-out every month.

These are the Methods of Scouting, and to reemphasize @Tron point, this is a Scouting program. If we're only concerned with getting highest rank and-or going camping or socializing, then that alone is not Scouting. There's other watered down youth programs for that

 

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by ramanous

[fred8033]

 

On 5/31/2022 at 8:49 AM, MattR said:

The problem with the methods is that they don't include what youth are really looking for. All scouts want fun with friends and older scouts want a unique challenge (high adventure, working with younger scouts, service, it depends on the scout). To make scouting work they also need to learn how to create this on their own. That's not simple. It's more than organizing a campout every month.

It includes understanding what motivates the scouts, and that's an age old problem. Most people fear the unknown yet every adventure includes the unknown. 

 

Agreed. 

Mission.  Goals.  Aims.  Methods.  ...  Those words attempt to box scouting into a formalized structured algorithm.  I'm not sure scouting always fits cleanly though a scouting is not any single objective.  Rather, scouting has always been about getting youth together in an outdoor environment to stretch their comfort zone.  Thru that environment, scouts learn and grow.  

[ramanous]

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an outdoor environment to stretch their comfort zone.  Thru that environment, scouts learn and grow

Which is the Outdoor program, along with the other 7 Methods of Scouting working together. If all we emphasize is the Outdoor Program and Rank Advancement, then we're being even more boxed in!

[Eagle1993]

My son just asked his best friend why he dropped out of scouting (from another troop).  He said Boy Scouts is 10 hours of boring meetings for every weekend of camping.   He can just go camping without the boring meetings.  Another scouting friend said the same thing.   I am debating if we stop indoor meetings as much as possible.  

 

[fred8033]

2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

My son just asked his best friend why he dropped out of scouting (from another troop).  He said Boy Scouts is 10 hours of boring meetings for every weekend of camping.   He can just go camping without the boring meetings.  Another scouting friend said the same thing.   I am debating if we stop indoor meetings as much as possible.  

Good reflection that society changed.  Twenty years ago, meetings were a way for friends to see friends and socialize.  Now, most do that on-line.  Kids won't leverage forced structures to socialize anymore.   ... BUT, they still want adventures.  ... BSA would be much more attractive if we focus more and more on the "outing".

[RememberSchiff]

8 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

My son just asked his best friend why he dropped out of scouting (from another troop).  He said Boy Scouts is 10 hours of boring meetings for every weekend of camping.   He can just go camping without the boring meetings.  Another scouting friend said the same thing.   I am debating if we stop indoor meetings as much as possible. 

IMO, this could be a good experiment, with failure allowed, of the Leadership Method. One patrol prepares for a campout, another wings it or a mystery destination where lack of preparation leads to lost fun opportunities...oh there was a beach?

[ramanous]

I definitely get what you're saying, including the struggle of keeping a troop from losing membership. To me, that's a double edge sword: for every kids that says it boring, there another that's looking for a proper Scouting experience. Who wins? You can't please everyone.

Boring meetings? Are these Scout led patrols? What Scouting things does the PLC plan for these meetings? If they aren't planning meetings, then that's the primary problem. If they are, then they need be "guided" towards fun activities with positive outcomes. If your patrols and troop aren't planning meetings, then the clique in charge (Scouts or Scouters) is winging it which can result in the appearance of favoritism and alienation... hardly the outcomes we want reinforced. 

Treat the meetings like short outings. Every outing needs some structure, preferably Scout led (meal times, activities, and that doesn't mean an outing can't have unstructured down-time.)

Reflect on the meaning of each individual word in Scouting Program. A youth group without the scouting methods is not scouting. Program is not free time.

 

 

[qwazse]

On 5/3/2022 at 11:39 AM, ramanous said:

… The idea that a scout should make First Class in a year? I question …

Question no longer, take a quote from this stranger on the internet and be certain:

First class first year is a lie. The skills therein are difficult to master.

I have seen classes of scouts get to Eagle no sooner if they earn 1st class early.

Edited June 15, 2022 by qwazse