Changes that improved our program

[Bob White]

"That being said, why does it seem to disturb you that a unit might tweak the frequency of their PLC meetings?"

 

It doesn't.

What disturbs me is that, in the situation you refer to, what the unit was doing originially wasn't anything like the BSA program and they thought it was. So they changed it to work better. But what they changed it to was something much closer to the BSA program and they didn't even know it. That trained leaders, who train other leaders, didn't know what is and what isn't the scouting program disturbs me a lot.

 

"We are not talking something like a unit redesigning their uniform or deciding that instead of an outdoors program they will have movie nights once a week..

 

Yes, it is exactly the same. You cannot pick and choose which Method it is OK to change and which method is not. When you change the Methods you change scouting and that is not the job of the Unit to do.

 

"The BSA states that a CO has to provide at least 10 nights of camping per year."

 

No it doesn't.

 

"Just because the training says to have a monthly PLC meeting does not mean it can be held more frequently if desired."

 

But that is not what the BSA training says. It says to have a short 10-15 minute PLC at the END of each troop meeting (and there is a specific and sound reason behind that) and a 60-90 minute meeting once a month.

 

If we are going to lead the BSA program we have a responsibility to learn what that program is. If you are not going to follow the program methods then you need to quit blaming the BSA at its various levels for the program not working. You need to use the entire program for all its components to work properly.

 

Many of the posts we have seen blaming the BSA program for not working are groundless because not only were the leaders not using the program, they never took the time to learn what the program is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ozemu]

Not being BSA nor having SPL over here maybe I can escape the wrath

 

This post is concerning Australian use of the SPL and PLC. I will be asking for advice or thoughts and you may want to skip past.

 

Our PLC is a stand up arrangement when ever needed but not more than once or twice a month. We also do a sit down agenda and minutes style meeting every six weeks to three months depending on various commitments.

 

That's actually well within our training guidelines. And in practice we are way in front around here. (No SPL and max age under 15 means that SM's make the PLC's theme for meeting get implemented)

 

Monthly was what I was considering. I had never in my wildest dreams considered weekly. But I will now. Not sold yet but thinking a lot. Thanks Barry. Travel is a problem. Some drive for 40 minutes each way so earlier meetings are not likely. Therefore a separate meeting date and time will be needed. Stand up's excluded.

 

I shall consult my BSA PL Handbook and manual but what is the correct source for PLC arrangements pls?

 

Maybe I need an SPL handbook. Anyone got a spare?

 

We have room for an SPL in the program. It is sold as a six month end of tenure in Scouts appointment. Our appointments are permanent. They are not a normal part of our Troop establishment. Thinking on that too.

 

Pardon my ignorance BW but am I correct infering from your first post that SPL does not chair the PLC? Or is it that he does not monitor performance of Patrols?

[evmori]

Instead of holding our "short" PLC at the end of each meeting, we switched to the beginning. The PLC would review the prior week meeting & go over the plan for the current week meeting. They like this a lot.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

"Pardon my ignorance BW but am I correct infering from your first post that SPL does not chair the PLC? Or is it that he does not monitor performance of Patrols?

 

Not a problem Ozemu after all you are in a totaly differnt scouting program.

 

The SPL runs the monthly Patrol Leaders Conference from an agenda that is developed a few days in advance with the help and advice of the Scoutmaster.

 

The scoutmaster sits in on the meeting to keep the group under control, evaluate the needs of the junior leaders and their patrols, and to represent the BSA, and the troop committee.

 

The performance of the patrols is the responsibility of the Patrol Leaders. The SPL is not responsible for individual patrols. He coordinates the activities of the troop. The troop is a gathering of self governed patrols. Each Patrol is under the leadership of its own elected leader.

 

I is similar to within our political system of the Vice-President chairing the Senate. While he may be in charge of the meeting, he has no authority within the individual states.

 

You can find the SPL's responsibilities beginning on page 10 of the SPL handbook.

 

Ed,

So you review the meeting 7 days after it happened? In hopes that the scouts will remember what they need to improve a week later??? And have how many minutes to effect a change before the next meeting begins???? Your about 7 days to late to make any changes.

 

"They like this a lot."

 

There are lots of things kids "like" that have nothing to do with the methods of purpose of scouting.

 

There are leaders who like flipping kids upside down, that doesn't mean its the right thing to do.

 

 

 

[evmori]

Well, so much for the exchange of changes that worked! Even though the Scouts can write & take notes I guess we are wrong in not reviewing the meeting as soon as it is finished! I forgot to take the Bob White rule into account!

Bob White Rule

"If it isn't done EXACTLY the way it is written in a BSA publication, it isn't Scouting"

Well, I guess the guys in my Troop aren't Scouting then! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

[Bob White]

"Well, I guess the guys in my Troop are Scouting then!"

 

Was this a typo?

[evmori]

Yes it was a typo. I fixed it.

[Eagledad]

Good Oklahoma Morning All

 

>>What disturbs me is that, in the situation you refer to, what the unit was doing originially wasn't anything like the BSA program and they thought it was. So they changed it to work better.

[Bob White]

"Well, I guess the guys in my Troop aren't Scouting then! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10"

 

Are you asking for my opinion?

 

 

[evmori]

Sarcasm is wonderful tool!

 

Bob,

I always want your opinion!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

"Hey, hey, hey Bob, your above statement is an assumption your mind alone created and is totally inaccurate."

 

Not at all Barry. Here is what you originally posted.

 

"One program change we made that really boosted our boy run program was going from monthly PLC meetings to weekly. After three years of monthly meetings, the youth leaders just werent growing as much as we thought were capable. The SPLs never seem to gain complete control of the meeting, both in format and controlling the group and they didnt seem to build much more confidence from one meeting to the next. Our monthly meetings always went about two hours long with the last 45 minutes not being very productive.

 

Well Barry, having only one PLC Meeting a month for two hours with 45-minutes of wasted time is not and has not ever been a part of the troop program or of the BSA Scout leader training.

 

"You think about it, four weeks is a long time for a SPL to wait for report. He can do it by phone, but it just wasnt working very well. And everyone (youth and adults) felt it just wasnt fun. Im a big believer in that if it is not fun, change it."

 

Your right and that's why that is not the way the BSA trains you to operate the troop.

 

"So we came up with an idea of a 30 minute PLC meeting each week before the troop meeting."

 

Actually you could have saved a lot of time and energy surveying and plotting simply by following the scouting program and meeting weekly with the PLC after the meeting as prescribed in the Scoutmaster Handbook and the Scoutmaster Training.

The BSA had weekly PLCs in the program long before you did, you just didn't know it or use it.

 

"The program matured faster from this one change than anything change I look back on. Honestly I cringe for troops that still have one meeting a month."

 

It's amazing how well things work the closer you get to following the program. Think of the progress that could have been made years earlier if they had started following the program sooner.

 

You did not change the program Barry! You changed to following the program closer and it worked!

 

It would have been nice, especially since you train other leaders, if you had known that weekly PLCs were already a part of the program. It's in the training videos in the Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training as well as other resources.

 

So you see, based on your comments and the BSA program, my evaluation was on the money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Bob White]

Ed wrote

"Well, I guess the guys in my Troop aren't Scouting then!"

 

and

 

"Bob,

I always want your opinion!"

 

Fine, but just remember you asked...

I think your troop got bored and quit.

 

I think your PATROL is doing the very best job they can with what they have been lead to believe is a Scouting program, and that had the Scouting program actual been followed these past few years you would not be down to just one patrol.

 

 

[evmori]

Bob,

If you are gonna quote me quote the whole thing!

 

Yeah my Troop. I am a member of Troop 1. Therefore my Troop. Sorta like the church I am a member of. My church! I am not a member of any patrol other than my Woodbadge patrol.

 

Your refusal to bend is comical! You make assumptions not knowing the facts then comment on them like you do know all the facts! You bash posters who do not agree with you and are intolerant of anyone who doesn't use your version of the BSA program.

 

Like I posted before Bob, sarcasm is a wonderful tool! Reel 'em in! We caught a chicken in white tights!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Ed,

How many patrols are there in your troop today?

[Backpacker]

Bob

 

You just don't know when to give up, your comments have become more absurd as of late.

 

At a recent council meeting the program committee, the SE and other council reps reviewed your comments on this thread. After a long period of laughter they commented how rigid and inaccurate your interpretation of many of the rules were.

 

So if they could not take your comments seriously how can you expect myself or anyone else posting here to take you seriously. I think your motives may be good but your delivery leaves a lot to be desired. So go ahead and accuse my council of not delivering a scouting program, we could all use another good laugh at our next meeting.

 

Ed, glad to see you back buddy.