Changes that improved our program

[evmori]

Ed,

How many patrols are there in your troop today?

 

Totally irrelevant to this thread. If you can't share a change that improved your program, don't bash the ones who can!

 

And just for clarification, there is only one program. The delivery varies unit to unit!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Sorry Back Packer, I don't believe you for a minute. I already exposed your difficulty with the truth in the other thread but I'll bet you did not share those did you? Besides, the thread you refer to did not discuss any rules. It discussed methods, which if you were a trained scouter, you would know are completely different.

 

As far as when to give up if you read the posts you will see I was responding to questions that posters asked of me directly. if I had not responded I am sure you or others would have found reason to criticize me for that as well.

 

Ed, you have never allowed relevance to keep you from posting in the past. So how many patrols are there in your troop today?

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

Thanks, Backpacker!

 

So, Bob, what changes have you made that improved the way you deliver the BSA program?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Backpacker]

Bob,

The only one who has trouble with the truth is you my friend.

You may choose to believe whatever you want, I will get the members to verify in writing to you at the next meeting on council stationary if you like. Second, I used the word rules instead of methods but you know what I meant. Third, if you like Bob I would be happy to compare my list of training against yours anytime because I know you will come up short. You may have noticed how many more posters are questioning your replies Bob, I sure have.

[SR540Beaver]

Bob,

 

With all due respect, you are being petty and condescending.

 

Barry does not need me to defend him. I know Barry. I consider Barry a friend. My sone and I have visited the Troop Barry serves and I can assure you that they know the program, support the program, believe in the program and use the program. The are a well organized and successful boy run troop. I'd love for my son to be a part of his Troop if it wasn't in another town with at least a 30 minute drive.

 

I'm reminded of the biography I read of Chuck Yeager, the test pilot who first flew supersonic. Yeager knew the book backwards and forwards, he knew every nut and bolt on the planes he flew and how each syatem interacted. That knowledge couple with his experience is what kept him alive on many flights that took a bad turn. He applied his knowledge and adapted to the situation at hand.

[Bob White]

Beaver,

if you look again at my posts you will see that I am not saying that Barry is doing a bad thing. Quite the opposite, I am saying he is doing better than he was before. Something Barry admits to as well.

 

The difference in our posts is that Barry thinks he has changed from the scouting program and I am saying that what he did was change closer to the scouting program and that is why it is working better.

 

Where we are divided is that Barry didn't realize that what the troop was doing originally wasn't the program, and he didn't realize athat what they are doing now is closer, and that as a trainer it would be nice if he had known the difference.

 

Back Packer,

I am not the topic of this thread, the scouting program is. Why do you choose to attack me personally rather than discuss the elements of the topic. Nearly half your posts discuss me now. This forum is about scouting, a far more interesting topic, but your posts on scouting are few. If you think I am not accurate in my information, prove it. Find the source material and present it.

 

I am not making this stuff up, I give the BSA resource on all these topics. Why do you check them out and give a counter argument? just attacking me does not give you credibility as a scout leader.

 

BW

 

[evmori]

The pot calls the kettle black, eh, Bob!

 

Guess it's OK for you to take pot shots at posters but when someone does the same to you it's not fair.

 

So, Bob, what changes have you made that improved the way you deliver the BSA program?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Who have I taken a pot shot at Ed? Give one specifc example. Just as a reminder, you are the one sending me the insulting PMs not the other way around.

 

As far as what I have changed, as a unit leader, nothing. As a unit leader that is not my role in scouting.

 

As a trainer, nothing. As a trainer I have a responsibility to teach the BSA program not a version of one.

 

The changes I have been involed in were at the invitaion of the BSA National office as part of a large team of other volunteers. Thats how changes happen. They are developed, tested and then released on a national scope with supporting resources and training so that ALL units have the same program to follow and not different versions in every unit.

 

BW

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Eagledad]

>>The difference in our posts is that Barry thinks he has changed from the scouting program and I am saying that what he did was change closer to the scouting program and that is why it is working better.

[Bob White]

Oh for Pete's sake Eagledad I quoted your own post. What part of your quote did you not say.

 

Did you not say that you used to meet once a month for nearly two hours and that the last 45-minutes was a waste of time?

 

Did you not say that you now meet weekly for about 20 minutes before each troop meeting, and then have a shorter monthly meeting?

 

Well that's almost exactly what the BSA teaches, only they instruct you to meet after the meeting and for good reason.

 

You saw an improvement, the BSA said all along it was the better way to do things.

 

The further from the BSA method you were, the more problems you had. The closer to the BSA method you got, the better it worked.

 

The big difference, you thought you were changing FROM the BSA program when in fact you were changing TO the BSA program.

 

Now what part of that did I get wrong?

 

These personal attacks rather than argue the points of the discussion are silly. Argue my points if you wish but come prepared with more than "oh yeah well your wrong." If the program says something other than what I am sharing, prove it. You said you are a trainer, look at the SM training syllabus and video and see if I have misrepresented one thing. If you prove otherwise I will be the first to admit it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[evmori]

So, Bob, you have nothing to add to this thread! Figures!

 

You have taken pot shots at me. Your question about how many patrols there are in my unit has nothing to do with the topic. You only purpose is to criticize. Nothing else. And whether I send you PM's or not is no ones business but yours & mine. And that PM you are referring to wasn't an insult. It is a fact.

 

You called Backpacker a liar. That's a shot!

 

Here's a change I suggest you make. Get a spell checker, please! For a person who claims to know-it-all you should be a little more meticulous in your detail. Misspelling simple words detracts for the point you are trying to make & sometimes makes it downright unreadable!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

My apologies to all for having this interruption in the thread.

 

Ed,

You keep using the term patrols (plural when you website only shows a ptrol (singular). All I have done is ask which is accurate. You could resolve this with an answer. Althoug I now believe the answer has become apparent to all.

 

Like you, Back Packer says one thing in his posts but when you look at the facts, in this case easily reviewable posts, they are far from what he said they were.

 

I am inviting everyone to do the same. Compare what I say with what the BSA says and see if there is a difference. But get some facts don't just spout your dislike for me because the program doesn't match what you do.

 

This thread is about changing the program and having it work better. so far what we have had posted is a case where the unit changed back to be closer to the program and seeing improvement. That's to be expected, the program works. But you have to use it.

 

Your troop size is directly related to this topic. You have often supported "tweaking" and have told what you do differently in your troop. Well what were the results. Growth ? Retention? Exodus?

 

Ed, if you have trouble reading my posts then don't read them. I am by no means the only one who has typos, yet you seem fixated on attacking me rather than discuss the topic.

 

You complained when I ignored your posts, so I have tried to give you another channce and you constantly show why I blocked your posts to begin with.

 

Now please discuss the topic at hand, and it isn't me.

 

[Backpacker]

Ok to the topic at hand:

 

Ed,Barry and I, as well as others I'm sure, have experimented with mixed age patrols and have had good success, and I for one will continue to follow this model. Second, we have had good results with changing the way the PLC meetings are done in our troops to make them more productive, we each found our own method that works best for our troops. Barry is right when he says that a program has large as scouting does not always fit in a small square box, "sometimes you need to make a few twists and tucks", a quote from a SM course at Philmont. In spite of Bobs opinions, "a good scout leader needs to think outside the box sometimes since not everything can be found in the books. Scouting is a living, breathing entity not a stagnant relic." , also from SM course at Philmont. So in spite of some scouters who never try anything original in their troop(Bob)those that do and are successful are to be applauded for keeping Scouting alive and an integral part of their boys lives, and because it keeps scouting growing. (So that we stay on topic Bob please keep your comments to yourself, thank you.)

[Bob White]

So BackPacker what conference did you take at PTC and who was your conference leader?

 

 

[Cubmaster-Fred]

BW

 

I have been following both of these threads for days now and still I can not get over how you rant over and over about how everyone is not following the BSA program.

 

I cannot believe that you basically are saying you have never deviated from the "program". Not every rule BSA has is black and white, many rules are open to interpretation. Remember not all people follow the same path, but the destination is what counts. So long as you don't do anything immoral, illegal or unethical and stay within the "guidelines" of the program then no one is being hurt.

 

Remember what works for you might not work for someone else.

 

CMF