Back to the Scoutmaster Issues Again.....

[scoutldr]

Just a suggestion...ditch the trailer and get back to basics.  

[swilliams]

33 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

Just a suggestion...ditch the trailer and get back to basics.  

There’s a debate, for sure. 

We would need more parents to camp if we didn’t have the trailer. This trip we had six adults and ten scouts. Newly crossed over, so more parents than usual.  Between patrol boxes, backpacks, food/coolers and scouts, we were very pressed for space.  If we hadn’t had as many parents as we did, we wouldn’t have been able to transport. And I don’t know about other troops, but we have a really hard time getting parents to stay for a meeting or send out an email, let alone camp. 

That said, Venture Crew doesn’t have a trailer. But we’re also a small al-girl crew and our youngest is 14. Big difference between crew and troop in terms of who is ready for mainly backpacking trips. We also buy a lot of freeze-dried meals for the crew (we’ll be using them our next trip - 14 miles in the Burroughs Range in NY), and they get expensive.  Admittedly there are alternatives.

Would be interesting to see how many have trailers and how many do without.  

[Eagle94-A1]

Although we have several trucks with towing capability, the trailer we have is so heavy, only 1 can pull it. It is a custom built one and one that survived a crash down a mountainside. (don't ask before my time, but our CC is proud of the indestructability of the trailer). Our driver is not going camping this weekend, and we are simulating a backpacking trip as we don't have a lot of vehicles going.

 

As for backpacking meals, we have gone old school and are making our own. Still pricier than normal, but cheaper than the premade stuff.

[Jameson76]

18 hours ago, fred8033 said:

• Position specific expectations
  • Does the candidate SM have a trailer hitch that can pull the troop trailer?   

 

 

Always entertaining discussion on towing the trailer.  Have run across units held hostage by the Trailer Haulers that are able to dictate when and where the troop camps due to their "contribution"

Glad our troop trailer is smaller, our gear is stored in a shed, and can be hauled by any SUV / truck.  No extra requirements for hauling.

[InquisitiveScouter]

No trailer works for patrol outings...  two adults, 5 to 8 Scouts...maybe one extra car (a parent) for transpo...

For Troop outings...nope.

We have 57 Scouts now (in 7 Patrols) Our average on outings is about 30-35 Scouts.  The average family's vehicle can hold about five passengers, so we need 6 or 7 vehicles just to get the bodies there.  The average family car cannot hold passengers and gear for six people (including the driver, when they are camping.)

Most families do not own trucks or SUVs in our area...

Our Troop owns two gear trailers: one large for Troop outings (and storage) (donated long ago), one small for medium sized outings (and storage) (purchased recently with Troop funds).

We recently changed COs.  The CO does not have space for a shed for troop gear storage, so we purchased the smaller trailer to act as a "mobile shed" of sorts.  The used trailer costed us less than a shed would have.  And now we have the capability to send out medium sized trips of several patrols to different locations.

Our practice is that all trailers must be single axle, under 3000 lbs, so as not to require brakes on the trailer, inspections (in our state), and vehicles with higher towing capacity and wiring for a trailer brake controller.  The trailers can be towed with most SUVs and just about any truck.  We have at least 10 families that can tow (about 20% of Troop).

These solutions make sense for our unit, and the program that our Scouts have chosen.  These are the basics for us.

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by InquisitiveScouter

[fred8033]

2 hours ago, swilliams said:

Would be interesting to see how many have trailers and how many do without.  

Every troop I know has a trailer.  Every one.  Even if they are the backpacking light-weight camping troop.  Some might use the trailer rarely, but each and every does have a trailer.  Example:  Used during week long summer camp, but not on each and every monthly camping trip.

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

Always entertaining discussion on towing the trailer.  Have run across units held hostage by the Trailer Haulers that are able to dictate when and where the troop camps due to their "contribution"

Don't get me started on being held hostage by a Trailer Hauler. You can read all about it in another thread🤬 

[qwazse]

Our past few SMs have not hauled the trailer. It’s better that way.

We’ve had numerous “transition blindsides” over the years. Roll with it. If the new SM isn’t available for every event, that’s not a problem. I’ve assisted SMs on numerous occasions by being the point person for an event, campout, or summer camp. It works. Of course, I have great parents who will haul the trailer and maintain better gear than I could ever imagine. And, the SM pushes paperwork well.

Your bigger problem is that your COR is removed from the leadership selection process. You must fix that. The key three should be in touch at least quarterly.

[fred8033]

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Although we have several trucks with towing capability, the trailer we have is so heavy, only 1 can pull it.

I've been in multiple troops.  One of the troops had a heavy trailer with heavy gear.  I never volunteered to pull that specific trailer even though I drove a Suburban and a 1500+ truck.   I did not want to damage my vehicle.  We had two guys with 2500+ trucks.   I was always grateful.  I pulled the other troop trailers, but those were light weight. 

It's all in gear selection.  Patrol boxes that required four 12 year old scouts or two adults to move.  I preferred light weight camping supplies.  Yes we use a trailer, but it doesn't need to be a beast.

I hijacked the original purpose of the thread.  My apologies.

[swilliams]

8 hours ago, fred8033 said:

I've been in multiple troops.  One of the troops had a heavy trailer with heavy gear.  I never volunteered to pull that specific trailer even though I drove a Suburban and a 1500+ truck.   I did not want to damage my vehicle.  We had two guys with 2500+ trucks.   I was always grateful.  I pulled the other troop trailers, but those were light weight. 

It's all in gear selection.  Patrol boxes that required four 12 year old scouts or two adults to move.  I preferred light weight camping supplies.  Yes we use a trailer, but it doesn't need to be a beast.

I hijacked the original purpose of the thread.  My apologies.

Not at all.  Nice to be having a scouting discussion.

[mrjohns2]

We are starting to look for small trailers. 1 axel, 8 or 10 feet. Really just to free up seatbelts. The goal is to have it towable by a midsized SUV. 

[MattR]

I think I might hijack this thread again. The topic of trailers is a type of hot button issue for me. It's not the trailer so much as the mindset it creates. I'm fine with a trailer to make it easier for more scouts to get in fewer cars. What I dislike is the attitude of "we have a trailer, just bring all the gear we could possibly need." I'd talk about Thrifty and it just never resonated with anyone. What people want vs what they need. When I did a lot of backpacking I got really good at knowing the difference.

I forced the troop to dump the huge patrol boxes that did take four adults to move. We replaced those with a patrol tote on wheels that two scouts could easily deal with. I wanted to go one step further and do similar to what I did as a scout; divy up all the needed patrol gear at the meeting before we went camping and leave the rest behind. Nobody understood. I'd point out the cooking requirements that included making a list of gear needed and, again, it just never connected.

Now, I just feel like I'm getting in the way. I don't participate anymore, because of things just like this.

[Sentinel947]

47 minutes ago, MattR said:

I think I might hijack this thread again. The topic of trailers is a type of hot button issue for me. It's not the trailer so much as the mindset it creates. I'm fine with a trailer to make it easier for more scouts to get in fewer cars. What I dislike is the attitude of "we have a trailer, just bring all the gear we could possibly need." I'd talk about Thrifty and it just never resonated with anyone. What people want vs what they need. When I did a lot of backpacking I got really good at knowing the difference.

I forced the troop to dump the huge patrol boxes that did take four adults to move. We replaced those with a patrol tote on wheels that two scouts could easily deal with. I wanted to go one step further and do similar to what I did as a scout; divy up all the needed patrol gear at the meeting before we went camping and leave the rest behind. Nobody understood. I'd point out the cooking requirements that included making a list of gear needed and, again, it just never connected.

Now, I just feel like I'm getting in the way. I don't participate anymore, because of things just like this.

There's an element of people doing what they've always done. It's comfortable. 

[swilliams]

13 hours ago, MattR said:

I think I might hijack this thread again. The topic of trailers is a type of hot button issue for me. It's not the trailer so much as the mindset it creates. I'm fine with a trailer to make it easier for more scouts to get in fewer cars. What I dislike is the attitude of "we have a trailer, just bring all the gear we could possibly need." I'd talk about Thrifty and it just never resonated with anyone. What people want vs what they need. When I did a lot of backpacking I got really good at knowing the difference.

I forced the troop to dump the huge patrol boxes that did take four adults to move. We replaced those with a patrol tote on wheels that two scouts could easily deal with. I wanted to go one step further and do similar to what I did as a scout; divy up all the needed patrol gear at the meeting before we went camping and leave the rest behind. Nobody understood. I'd point out the cooking requirements that included making a list of gear needed and, again, it just never connected.

Now, I just feel like I'm getting in the way. I don't participate anymore, because of things just like this.

Okay, I HAVE to share this story now.  One of the new parents that came on the last camping trip brought two suitcases, two full-size pillows, and a massage table.  I am not even kidding, swear on my life.  She set it up in the middle of camp and lay there while everyone else was fixing lunch.  

[DuctTape]

21 minutes ago, swilliams said:

Okay, I HAVE to share this story now.  One of the new parents that came on the last camping trip brought two suitcases, two full-size pillows, and a massage table.  I am not even kidding, swear on my life.  She set it up in the middle of camp and lay there while everyone else was fixing lunch.  

When the campsite is next to the cars, this is what happens. Nothing wrong with car camping, but it is "stage 1". Next is moving the campsite a quarter mile from the cars. Then a mile. Then 3. All of the stages require growth and usage of the specific advancement requirements. This is why a good program has advancement built in as automatic necessities to participate in the program. Contrasted with car camping plus advancement. The added benefit is the quality program grows with the scouts so there is less burnout. Little of the "we do the same campout all the time". I have found the greatest obstacle from moving away from the cars (and trailer) is the adults.