On my Honor - Documentary on BSA Sex Abuse Scandal

[Eagledad]

1 minute ago, OaklandAndy said:

There are 2 sides of the fence in anything. Is Scouting inherently evil? No. Did it make a major blunder and paying for it. Yes. If people didn't believe in its overall values, there would be no memberships, no volunteers, and those of us who are still here wouldn't be fighting like h*ll to stay afloat and grow our units and continue to teach, guide, and mentor. 

You can find faults in any organization. Like the ol' saying goes, "it's not how you start that's important, but how you finish". Call me naïve, but we will make it. 

I disagree there is two sides of the fence for an organization that offers so much good for the community. Are public schools bad? There is a story on the news every week of students becoming victims in a public school. Yet, closing all public schools would make no sense. As you said, you can find faults in any organization.

Barry

[OaklandAndy]

1 minute ago, Eagledad said:

I disagree there is two sides of the fence for an organization that offers so much good for the community.

I might have worded that wrong. By saying there are 2 sides of the fence, I meant there are good and bad things that happen in any organization. I didn't mean in terms of absolute, but in terms that we can work though it the best we can.  And yes, public schools are bad IMO 😁

[ThenNow]

17 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Correct. The program does so much good for youth and community, being anti BSA doesn't make sense. Of course we all have aspects of the program we don't like, but to come to all discussions as anti BSA doesn't make sense to me. 

Have you ever gotten severe food poisoning, stung by a bunch of bees, had your father pull out your "loose" teeth with a pliers or hooked on opioids? I have. That specific food, though good and healthy? No thanks. Things with stingers, though they do a lot of good? Not so much. Dental visits (and I'll avoid father issues and pliers, which I've dealt with through therapy)? Dislike enormously. Taking any narcotics, even post-op? Nah. Making sense is about understanding. Being anti-BSA "doesn't make sense to me," means you don't (or can't or won't allow yourself to) understand the complete aversion of someone to BSA continuing as an institution, based on the abuse they suffered. It is completely understandable.  No? Perhaps it's not logical to you, based on the good vs ill equation, but you can't understand it? Just checking to see if that's really what you intended to say. Thanks.

[Eagledad]

2 minutes ago, OaklandAndy said:

I might have worded that wrong. By saying there are 2 sides of the fence, I meant there are good and bad things that happen in any organization. I didn't mean in terms of absolute, but in terms that we can work though it the best we can.  And yes, public schools are bad IMO 😁

😂, Yes, there are other aspects of public schools that bring pause.

But, my words that anti scouting doesn't make sense is absolute. I feel it has to be absolute to balance what I feel are absolute anti scouting comments. For all its shortcomings, the BSA still offers our culture an alternative of hope and peace to counter negative cultural influences. I think it was Baden Powell who said he had a dream of scouting bringing world peace. That is quite a vision. But, those are the kinds of visions that create noble movements.

Barry

[johnsch322]

17 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I disagree there is two sides of the fence for an organization that offers so much good for the community. Are public schools bad? There is a story on the news every week of students becoming victims in a public school. Yet, closing all public schools would make no sense.

Of course, there is two sides to the fence. Offering good to the community does not absolve one from its sins. As far as schools well you would not have to ask too many people about closing them and you would find an opinion for closing. Why is home schooling on the rise (and it was before the pandemic)?

[johnsch322]

2 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

But, my words that anti scouting doesn't make sense is absolute.

There are no absolutes in life. 

[Eagledad]

8 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

There are no absolutes in life. 

Anti scouting makes no sense.

Barry

[ThenNow]

3 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Anti scouting makes no sense.

Barry

Barry, your former 10-year Director of Youth Protection said, unequivocally, that "children are not safe in Scouting," that "[he] failed" to protect children, and apologized to survivors. You disagree with him, of course, but are you feeling no dissonance in the Force? No understanding that there is a different position? Words matter. 

[johnsch322]

8 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Anti scouting makes no sense.

I understand it makes no sense to you and as I have stated before I am on the fence.  The fact that I and others are on the fence makes this discussion worthwhile. You have had a great scouting life and I am happy for you but a lot of us had exactly the opposite. 

 

5 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

former 10-year Director of Youth Protection said, unequivocally, that "children are not safe in Scouting," that "[he] failed" to protect children,

Barry the above statement makes these discussions relevant. Believe or not believe it is up to you but please do not stick your head in the sand. that fuels the anti BSA discussion.

[Eagledad]

9 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Barry, your former 10-year Director of Youth Protection said, unequivocally, that "children are not safe in Scouting," that "[he] failed" to protect children, and apologized to survivors. You disagree with him, of course, but are you feeling no dissonance in the Force? No understanding that there is a different position? Words matter. 

I have experience with the system. I don't believe he does. Or he did it wrong. Scouts are very safe. It's not perfect, and never can be. No system is. There is always someone looking for cracks. 

Barry

[Eagledad]

Sand? I am only adding balance to anti- BSA comments based from my experience. How much adult experience do you have in the program?

Barry

[johnsch322]

13 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Sand? I am only adding balance to anti- BSA comments based from my experience. How much adult experience do you have in the program?

Barry

 

15 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I have experience with the system. I don't believe he does. Or he did it wrong. Scouts are very safe. It's not perfect, and never can be. No system is. There is always someone looking for cracks. 

Barry

This is why I said you are burying your head in the sand. The former Director of Youth Protection says scouts are not safe. I am sure that he had access to more data then you have had (unless you are in a position above or equivalent to him in BSA national). So why don't you want to believe him? 

Maybe in your small slice of BSA life you have not come across any issues and that in itself is good however I think your experience is a very small piece of a large pie.

Asking me for how much adult experience I have had in BSA is like me asking you for how much experience you have had in being sexually assaulted. 

Edited May 6, 2022 by johnsch322

[Eagledad]

I have experience as a scout leader working with abused scouts. How much experience as a Scout leader do you have working with abused scouts? 

I simply don't agree with the director and as someone who works in a data evaluation area, data doesn't tell a whole story. I have worked with many scouters across the country and I believe I have a good feel for the program. Scouts are very safe. Can improvements be made? Maybe, but I can't see anything making big changes. 

Scouting is a program that makes big positive differences to families with scouts. We need that. Anti scouting makes no sense. 

Barry

[johnsch322]

2 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I have experience as a scout leader working with abused scouts. How much experience as a Scout leader do you have working with abused scouts? 

Are you talking about Scouts who were abused in BSA?

 

3 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I simply don't agree with the director and as someone who works in a data evaluation area, data doesn't tell a whole story. 

The gentleman worked in law enforcement before he worked for the BSA. 

"Experience is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first, then the lesson."

Excessive Child Sexual Abuse within the BSA was the test but I do not believe all of the lessons have been learned. 

 

[Eagledad]

3 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

Excessive Child Sexual Abuse within the BSA was the test but I do not believe all of the lessons have been learned. 

 

Yes, experience as a scouter is very much learning from the test.

And what is the lesson?

Barry