Involvement of Abused Alumni Post-Bankruptcy

[Cburkhardt]

Involvement of Abused Alumni Post-Bankruptcy?  Other than persons appointed to serve on governance committees as a result of the bankruptcy settlement, do you think BSA alumni who were abused will return to serve youth in the BSA?  If so, what do you think they should or will do as BSA volunteers?  Is a sense of reconciliation or forgiveness likely or even possible?  Will BSA volunteer parents of today’s daughters and sons and those who step forward to lead the BSA in the future be perpetually held to account for the negligent oversight and evil acts of the past?  I ask commenters to be honest but also charitable in their views.  This is springtime and Easter – a time of potential renewal in all of us and the organizations to which we belong. 

[qwazse]

With questions like these, my standard reply is, “It’s a big country.”

I can only base my thoughts on the CSA survivors who I know — nearly all their perpetrators were not scouters, and some folks who’ve posted on forums like these.

Survivors do participate in the organizations/families where they were abused. Some even have decent work/family relationships with their erstwhile abusers. So, certainly, do many of those who endured scouting-related CSA go on to be scouters: probably at every level of the organization. I can’t imagine that it is the case for a fraction of the survivors of such things. I do hope that,  because of their experience, they are contributing to all of us being proactive in putting up barriers to abuse.

[InquisitiveScouter]

Involvement of Abused Alumni Post-Bankruptcy?

YES

Other than persons appointed to serve on governance committees as a result of the bankruptcy settlement, do you think BSA alumni who were abused will return to serve youth in the BSA?

SOME WILL, SOME WON'T

If so, what do you think they should or will do as BSA volunteers?

WHATEVER THEY WANT

Is a sense of reconciliation or forgiveness likely or even possible?

THAT DEPENDS ON THE PERSON.  IMHO, NO.

Will BSA volunteer parents of today’s daughters and sons and those who step forward to lead the BSA in the future be perpetually held to account for the negligent oversight and evil acts of the past?

YES, WE ARE ALREADY PAYING THE PRICE IN LOST CAMPS AND HIGHER FEES FOR MEMBERSHIP AND HIGH ADVENTURE BASES.  ONCE A CAMP IS LOST, IT IS LOST. (PERPETUAL)

[ThenNow]

If anyone would like me to weigh in on this, shoot me a DM. I may otherwise not see any reply. I stumbled onto this thread based on the name. I don't want to step into this if you want it to be a discussion among active Scouters. I respect that desire, if so. If no one hollers either way, I will take that as my answer. I do appreciate the topic. It's thoughtful series of questions and could be a very deep and multifaceted discussion. 

[Cburkhardt]

Dear Friend: 

Because of professional obligations toward a client, I have not been able to comment on the bankruptcy proceedings and have largely been absent from the site since the filing.  I posted these questions because I hope as a human being there is some potential for reconciliation as these matters continue to be processed by individuals.  Everyone is welcome to comment. 

Here's to a splendid Easter weekend for everyone, Cburkhardt

[ThenNow]

I appreciate the invite and will give my forty cents. I am feeling generous as the season, and maybe even hope, can spring eternal. 

As some who've read my innumerable posts and droning know, I had reengaged with Scouting in the late fall of 2019. Then, February 18, 2020 struck and I was sucked into a vortex. A manic blackhole of slashing emotions, manic involvement in this process and a gnawing desire to do something that would afford me a measure of control. I think my survivor status and media commentary got me dismissed from the LC Executive Board. That is an unconfirmed, though rationale assumption. I no longer appear on the list of members, but that could also be due to inaction. So, as to forgiveness and moving on, maybe I can be one example. I was ready to help kids do some of what I accomplished and gained from Scouting, and avoid what I encountered on the dark, hidden and ugly side. 

As part of the mania and gnawing, I somehow found the announcement of the TCC selection that was soon to happen in Wilmington. I talked with my wife about it and hurriedly filled out my application and booked my ticket. My wife was about as sure I should do that as she was about reengaging several months earlier. When I went, the room was full of TCC hopefuls, attorneys and BSA folks. It was as surreal as surreal can get. Men and boys - I recall one teenager - were there for various reasons. It felt like a room of boys. Sadness and longing after years of silence and lack of acknowledgment. That said, two things stood out. First, I spoke at length with a man who was, in his estimation, denied Eagle for reporting his abuser. His paperwork was "lost" at least twice. He has persisted to try to find it for 30 years. No luck. The Scouter abuser was an important person and was not removed. The boy continued anyway and is still involved today. I gave him my Eagle pin and we cried. Second, when I interviewed with the committee lead by the US Trustees Office, represented by Mr. Buchbinder and one other whose name I don't recall, I told him I did not want BSA to go out f existence. I was there for my family, recompense, other survivors from my Troop and all those kids in and yet to be in Scouting. He told me that opinion was nearly universal among the applicants who preceded my in the magic tent.

So, I will allow any one who wants to respond do so before I continue. Feel free to ask questions. I love talking, as some of you are well aware. I hope this helps and provides a starting point from the perspective of one survivor. Again, thanks for starting this thread. 

PS - Forgive typos. I'm supposed to be cleaning the house. My wife ran errands. Fill in the blank. Oh. I am almost done so ask not to be accused of being un-Scoutlike.  

Edited April 15, 2022 by ThenNow

[Cburkhardt]

To focus the discussion, may I ask what your interests (if any) are for personal future BSA involvement?  Would there be any particular focus to that activity and is there anything you would wish to accomplish?

 

[ThenNow]

As follows:

1. By hook or by crook, a spot on the Youth Protection Committee and a board of one kind or another. I am not shy and will contact the TCC about it or whatever it takes.

2. Be a survivor resource for any LC that wants one, beyond they survivor board member if they find one. 

3. Visiting the HABs to see the eventual monuments.

4. Go to some national event as a means to confirm the good side of Scouting and see if it can be healing.

That's off the top of my head. I am in the balance on locally. I'm not sure if that's in the cards or healthy for me. I already visited my summer camp, which allowed me a creepy and nostalgic experience. I mapped locations in my POC and was able to confirm my recollections, which was comforting. The camp has changed a great deal and at the same time not so much. I immediately knew what was missing and what new. Most of the staff lodges were gone, the nature center where I worked was replaced (more or less) and the snake pits absent, the waterfront had no lifeguard house and the water was incredibly high, and an open-air chapel was built in memory of my friends who died. It needed some TLC which I almost set out doing by figure of my connection to the family that was killed in a car crash. The main lodge and dining hall looked and smelled exactly the as I remember, but felt much smaller. The main new things were the cinderblock showers with individual stalls. Some of you who know this camp will no doubt no the one of which I speak.

[skeptic]

To me, fortunate to NOT be a survivor, but understanding (as best as one can from outside) there are ambiguous feelings and views with this larger morass, I still feel Scouting is better than this and has a place in society and our country.  Our duty and goals should be to correct the compass point and to NOT abandon the mostly positive place Scouting can play in our communities.  While doing that though, we need to not wear blinders in relation to past mistakes and poor judgment, and to do all we can to keep the safeguards working and continually strengthen them as we are able.  

I found it interesting that in today's email notice for Bryan On Scouting, the subject relates to Child Protection and offers some perspective on what we already have available.  I know for a fact that much of what is listed and available is not commonly in use, and that in itself might be a major opportunity.  https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2022/04/15/child-abuse-prevention-is-woven-into-the-fabric-of-the-bsas-advancement-structure/    

Thank you for your contributions to helping navigate this, and your patience with those of us that have different perspectives, but still real concerns that this has some positive outcomes.  

[MattR]

On 4/13/2022 at 3:41 PM, Cburkhardt said:

Other than persons appointed to serve on governance committees as a result of the bankruptcy settlement, do you think BSA alumni who were abused will return to serve youth in the BSA? 

Depends on each individual. Some will, some won't. I'm not sure how this is really different than asking about any alumni.

On 4/13/2022 at 3:41 PM, Cburkhardt said:

If so, what do you think they should or will do as BSA volunteers?

They should and will likely do what best motivates them. Again, depends on each individual.

On 4/13/2022 at 3:41 PM, Cburkhardt said:

Is a sense of reconciliation or forgiveness likely or even possible?

Depends on how whole they are. My father, who left Germany in 1939 when he was 12, never became whole. He never forgave German society for what it did to him. He wasn't too keen with Christian society either. Individual Germans and Christians he would like but as a whole, he was always guarded. Trauma can run deep. But there were many holocaust survivors that did fine. It seems to me it depended on the support they got from family. My dad's family was not great.

As for the CSA survivors, I would expect something similar. Some will be able to forgive and some won't.

On 4/13/2022 at 3:41 PM, Cburkhardt said:

Will BSA volunteer parents of today’s daughters and sons and those who step forward to lead the BSA in the future be perpetually held to account for the negligent oversight and evil acts of the past?

As long as there are survivors that are not whole, of course. Maybe a better question is will the BSA and volunteers be perpetually humble about what happened?

On 4/13/2022 at 3:41 PM, Cburkhardt said:

This is springtime and Easter – a time of potential renewal in all of us and the organizations to which we belong. 

Tonight is also the first night of Passover. The story is about people escaping slavery. Not just physically but emotionally as well. We're all slaves to different things as well, so this is a fairly broad topic. It's also complicated. Truth be told, Moses was never going to live to see the promised land. And yet, Moses still had a good life. Lots of lessons to be had. Sometimes it is all about the children.

[Cburkhardt]

Reconciling vile acts and tragic impacts with the potential beauty of experiencing life seems so unlikely – so impossible.  And, questions which seem so distant to the bystander or uninvolved.  The Holocaust was “long ago”; South African apartheid was “far away”; and child sex abuse happened “somewhere else”.  As abused individuals turn to the aftermath of the bankruptcy I wish them comfort in however they continue processing their thoughts.