Signing Up Adults BSA vs Other Orgs

[Eagle1993]

I have spent years signing up adult leaders.  While it is slightly better, it involves chasing down paperwork, chasing down signatures, chasing down money and a bit of a repeat every year for recharter.

I just signed up to be a high school mountain bike coach on the NICA site.

The Team Coach sent me a personal link.  That ended their interaction/involvement.

• I completed all of my documentation online, including my health form and insurance info.
• I completed signing various wavers on line.
• I submitted for a background check online.  I know the company who did it.  I already know the results (1 hour later).  I have an account to follow up if needed.  I paid for this directly $38 and it includes a monthly check.  I was able to see I passed a DOJ Sex register and some other checks.  I can also use this for other orgs now (FIRST Robotics used the same company).
• I submitted my payment (only allowed if background check passed).  $25 for registration
• During payment, they ask for an additional donation (optional).
• Now my training is available ... right on the same site, very easy to interact with.  Required training is concussion (annual), Coach license level 1 (every 2 years), NICA Philosophy and Risk Management (annual) and Athlete Abuse Awareness Training (every 2 years)

It was fast, clear and rather painless.  The team head coach didn't need to sign off.  I didn't have to list a bunch of stuff on a small form of references that no one will call.  

I certainly hope BSA is looking at other organizations on the future of signing up adult volunteers.  There are groups out there that are far smaller that give a much better onboarding experience while limiting the demand on existing volunteers.

[yknot]

58 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I have spent years signing up adult leaders.  While it is slightly better, it involves chasing down paperwork, chasing down signatures, chasing down money and a bit of a repeat every year for recharter.

I just signed up to be a high school mountain bike coach on the NICA site.

The Team Coach sent me a personal link.  That ended their interaction/involvement.

• I completed all of my documentation online, including my health form and insurance info.
• I completed signing various wavers on line.
• I submitted for a background check online.  I know the company who did it.  I already know the results (1 hour later).  I have an account to follow up if needed.  I paid for this directly $38 and it includes a monthly check.  I was able to see I passed a DOJ Sex register and some other checks.  I can also use this for other orgs now (FIRST Robotics used the same company).
• I submitted my payment (only allowed if background check passed).  $25 for registration
• During payment, they ask for an additional donation (optional).
• Now my training is available ... right on the same site, very easy to interact with.  Required training is concussion (annual), Coach license level 1 (every 2 years), NICA Philosophy and Risk Management (annual) and Athlete Abuse Awareness Training (every 2 years)

It was fast, clear and rather painless.  The team head coach didn't need to sign off.  I didn't have to list a bunch of stuff on a small form of references that no one will call.  

I certainly hope BSA is looking at other organizations on the future of signing up adult volunteers.  There are groups out there that are far smaller that give a much better onboarding experience while limiting the demand on existing volunteers.

This is what people like me who are active in other organizations have been saying for years. The processes elsewhere are generally seamless, convenient, efficient, and easy. And cheaper. When we attempt to recruit people from outside scouting to the organization, they encounter this morass and are incredulous. Many folks who have been involved in scouting for years are in essence boiled frogs. They accept an incomprehensible situation as acceptable. Those that don't accept it and try to change it are blocked, silenced, tossed out, given some pap about how we're all volunteers and the answer is to volunteer yet more for this crazy universe, or dismissed as anti scout cranks. I too hope BSA will reorganize in a way that will allow it to reach a modern level of basic administrative competency.

 

[Jameson76]

58 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I have spent years signing up adult leaders.  While it is slightly better, it involves chasing down paperwork, chasing down signatures, chasing down money and a bit of a repeat every year for recharter.

I just signed up to be a high school mountain bike coach on the NICA site.

The Team Coach sent me a personal link.  That ended their interaction/involvement.

• I completed all of my documentation online, including my health form and insurance info.
• I completed signing various wavers on line.
• I submitted for a background check online.  I know the company who did it.  I already know the results (1 hour later).  I have an account to follow up if needed.  I paid for this directly $38 and it includes a monthly check.  I was able to see I passed a DOJ Sex register and some other checks.  I can also use this for other orgs now (FIRST Robotics used the same company).
• I submitted my payment (only allowed if background check passed).  $25 for registration
• During payment, they ask for an additional donation (optional).
• Now my training is available ... right on the same site, very easy to interact with.  Required training is concussion (annual), Coach license level 1 (every 2 years), NICA Philosophy and Risk Management (annual) and Athlete Abuse Awareness Training (every 2 years)

It was fast, clear and rather painless.  The team head coach didn't need to sign off.  I didn't have to list a bunch of stuff on a small form of references that no one will call.  

I certainly hope BSA is looking at other organizations on the future of signing up adult volunteers.  There are groups out there that are far smaller that give a much better onboarding experience while limiting the demand on existing volunteers.

BSA continues to operate as if they are still in the 1970's about how things work.  In our council, big office, at least 5 levels of management from DE to SE.  I think at the main camp the ranger has or can answer to 3 or 4 different staff.

At no time has BSA leveraged any of their size or experience to provide a better customer experience.  They basically do not care about our experience as volunteers having to interact with the BSA at the District / Council / National levels.  We are not worthy or their worry.

That may be harsh, but it is pretty much how they operate.

[InquisitiveScouter]

5 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I certainly hope BSA is looking at other organizations on the future of signing up adult volunteers.  There are groups out there that are far smaller that give a much better onboarding experience while limiting the demand on existing volunteers.

Heretic!

[fred8033]

5 hours ago, yknot said:

...  The processes elsewhere are generally seamless, convenient, efficient, and easy. And cheaper. ...

Glad to hear the current state of art in the original post.  It's good news.  It is the BSA direction too.  This is a reflection of ten years of huge evolution with technology.  

The NICA site sounds good, but I'm sure they have their dirty laundry too.  What if you don't click the link?  Would the team coach be hapy if 3 of 10 parents complete the registration?  What does your kid's team coach do if you don't register?  Do you know if the other adults helping the team have registered, passed their checks and completed training?  When team activities happen, is there coverage?  

SUGGESTION - I'd like to see broad visibility into the health of the unit.  The training/registration reports are easily available to unit commissioners and to key unit leaders.  IMHO, those same reports should be up-front available to each and every parent of a scout in the unit.  Get big red Xs on the report showing not trained, not registered or expired background checks.  

[yknot]

27 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Glad to hear the current state of art in the original post.  It's good news.  It is the BSA direction too.  This is a reflection of ten years of huge evolution with technology.  

The NICA site sounds good, but I'm sure they have their dirty laundry too.  What if you don't click the link?  Would the team coach be hapy if 3 of 10 parents complete the registration?  What does your kid's team coach do if you don't register?  Do you know if the other adults helping the team have registered, passed their checks and completed training?  When team activities happen, is there coverage?  

SUGGESTION - I'd like to see broad visibility into the health of the unit.  The training/registration reports are easily available to unit commissioners and to key unit leaders.  IMHO, those same reports should be up-front available to each and every parent of a scout in the unit.  Get big red Xs on the report showing not trained, not registered or expired background checks.  

That's not really state of the art, it's kind of been status quo normal for at least ten years. When I first signed on as a T ball coach it was ridiculously easy and I could access almost anything I wanted online and so could parents.  "Health of the unit" was pretty easy to assess. You could view rosters, standings, schedules, training, volunteer status, etc., etc.  From the parent viewpoint, registration is easy -- all forms, including medical can be taken care of right there, payments, uniforms, attendance at specific events/games, team/unit communications, etc. As the years have gone by, useful features and convenience has only become more robust. 

[fred8033]

10 hours ago, yknot said:

That's not really state of the art, it's kind of been status quo normal for at least ten years. When I first signed on as a T ball coach it was ridiculously easy and I could access almost anything I wanted online and so could parents.  "Health of the unit" was pretty easy to assess. You could view rosters, standings, schedules, training, volunteer status, etc., etc.  From the parent viewpoint, registration is easy -- all forms, including medical can be taken care of right there, payments, uniforms, attendance at specific events/games, team/unit communications, etc. As the years have gone by, useful features and convenience has only become more robust. 

Glad to hear. 

Not to be argumentative ... but ... the history of the last ten years is not consistent across organizations.  

When I use the WAY BACK MACHINE (archive.org) to look at our local groups, the the big transition was in 2017 for the city sports league and the school district school.  The local city baseball league uses a regional resource that the state league co-founded to do background checks and training.  The creation was explained as they had nothing else and wanted something easy and automated.  I clearly remember the school volunteer registration started around ten years ago and their vendor shows significant ramp up between 2015 and 2018.   

I'm saying ... Don't paint too broad of a brush.  This last ten years has been drastically evolving.  BSA has been moving at least as fast if not faster.  The real challenge now is their automation is not as clean as some of the other groups. ... now that I think about it ... BSA does provide scoutbook; any registered unit member can see the roster.  The roster of leaders means the person has had background checks and completed youth protection training.  IMHO, I'd also like to see it indicate if each position has completed position specific training.  BUT, every parent can see if the leader state.  ... Perhaps it should be more explicit ...  "THESE ARE THE REGISTERED LEADERS THAT HAVE COMPLETED BACKTGROUND CHECKS AND THE REQUIRED YOUTH PROTECTION TRAINING. ... ANYONE ELSE HELPING THAT DOES NOT APPEAR HERE HAS NOT BEEN CLEARED."

 

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

21 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

BSA does provide scoutbook

BSA bought Scoutbook, and does not provide support for it.  When they ended the Customer Help Desk for my.scouting.org, they dumped all support requirements on the local registrars, without any warning or training.  Scoutbook support is now done by volunteers.  It seems like it takes an act of God to to elevate an issue through a registrar to the National support desk, but that is the only way National takes input now.  the volunteers of the Scoutbook User Advisory Council monitor the forums on my.scouting to help people.  National does not monitor the forums there, unless it is to ID disgruntled volunteers.  There is no direct support for the end-users.  That is a fail, my friend.

Most of the really good features I use for Scoutbook are provided by the original developer through the Scoutbook Feature Assistant add-on...which BSA does not provide or control.

Edited April 13, 2022 by InquisitiveScouter

[fred8033]

Deleted

Edited April 13, 2022 by fred8033

[Eagle94-A1]

23 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Feels at times that this is scouter.com is a hate group and not a scouter forum.  

Feedback is a gift. Commentary to improve services should not be considered "hate."

But it does gets frustrating when you provide feedback, especially feedback you have been specifically asked for, and that feedback gets ignored. Best example is Instapalms. 94% of those polled were either Against (18%) or Strongly Against (76%), yet they did it anyway.

IT issues have been around since before SCOUTNET 2000 that came out in 1998. Experts in the field have offered solutions and were turned down.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Eagle94-A1

[InquisitiveScouter]

29 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

hate group

Hate group? 

What prompted that?

A hate group = 

An organization whose goals and activities are primarily or substantially based on a shared antipathy towards people of one or more other different races, religions, ethnicities/nationalities/national origins, genders, and/or sexual identities. The mere presence of bigoted members in a group or organization is typically not enough to qualify it as a hate group; the group itself must have some hate-based orientation/purpose. [Anti-Defamation League]

We have no specific shared goals, and no activities, other than sharing experiences and opinions.  This is a venue for open discussion and expression of ideas to flesh out thoughts and stances on issues.

What specifically would you identify as indicative of a "hate group"?

And remember @fred8033, your my mere presence here is not enough to qualify this as a hate group.

BTW, I hate everyone equally, but sporadically.  Hate is an emotion.  You cannot control emotions.  How I choose to respond to my universal hatred is something I can control.  And I choose to respond with kindness.

Ahoalton!

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by InquisitiveScouter

[Eagle1993]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Feedback is a gift. Commentary to improve services should not be considered "hate."

But it does gets frustrating when you provide feedback, especially feedback you have been specifically asked for, and that feedback gets ignored. Best example is Instapalms. 94% of those polled were either Against (18%) or Strongly Against (76%), yet they did it anyway.

IT issues have been around since before SCOUTNET 2000 that came out in 1998. Experts in the field have offered solutions and were turned down.

The good news is that BSA is making improvements.  They do have online applications for youth and adults.  They did buy Scoutbook which greatly improved tracking advancement.  I'm glad they see this as an area to invest.  However, I think they have a long way to go.

I hope post bankruptcy, they further fund IT including providing better IT services to councils.  This should not require $XXM of solutions.  There are much smaller organizations with much less funding that have better IT solutions.  

The signing up of volunteers is typically their first experience with BSA.  Nearly every volunteer I signed up had issues with training not working, payments, delays with COR approvals, etc.  

I guess my thought is that the volunteer signup is likely an easy area to address vs attempting to relook at major program content, merging councils, etc.  

[fred8033]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

What prompted that?

@InquisitiveScouter ... My apologies.  It's the continual dumping.  Statements like: that's failure.  stuck in the 1970s.  holding other groups which trashing their own.

It was within ten years that I remember the local traveling hockey ... after checked into the hotel, all the adults went to the bar for the night ... except one adult stayed back at the hotel with the youth.  I'm almost 100% that adult had not been background checked or trained.  Just a dad that did not want to sit in a bar.  I remember other similar groups had similar practices.  It was common and there are still many bad practices.  

It really feels like people just want to complain.  BSA training and registration have drastically improved in the last twenty years.  It still has a long way to go.  In some ways, BSA is suffering because it did start 15 years ago with online training.  I've now seen many versions of online training.  It's expensive to keep re-designing.  Similar for registration.  It will keep improving.  It's not ideal.  But BSA is far from deserving the trash talk. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

13 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

It's the continual dumping.  Statements like: that's failure.

As many have pointed out, the perception, mine included, is that National (and the local council) does its "dumping" on volunteers...consistently.

I have never been a part of any organization that practices "shoot the messenger" more consistently than BSA.

There are also a string of failures, demonstrating a pattern of disregard for BSAs mission and purpose, and a disregard for the value that adult volunteers bring to their portfolio, which many, including me, have experienced.  They are failures, because they are being PAID!!!  And many of them, extremely handsomely, to provide services and support to volunteers and youth, which they are not.

If it was just you and me as volunteers, I'd cut you a great deal of slack.

I know what Shinola is.  And I know that much of what I see from BSA is not Shinola.

 

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by InquisitiveScouter

[Jameson76]

23 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Glad to hear the current state of art in the original post.  It's good news.  It is the BSA direction too.  This is a reflection of ten years of huge evolution with technology.  

 

10 years, huge evolution?  I am just a realist, and the BSA has continually lagged.  National has been way behind since the 80's and 90's.  There were computers and ways to link things, they just were inept and inexperienced.  Not sure what all those board members are doing, obviously not offering advice.  They were way behind the ball on on-line applications, most councils were still booking weekend campsites manually in 2010.  When just a spreadsheet would have been better.  Most summer camp registration software is home grown or at best cobbled together.

The BSA has over 230 franchises (local councils) and thousands and thousands of PAID professionals, regional staff, and national staff.  No coherent plan or ability to link things.  Scouting.org is cumbersome at best.  Scoutbook as has been noted is a 3rd party program the BSA bought, but does not support.  We only sort of moved to on-line recharter last couple of years.  Eagle applications are still handled manually on some BSA system, why isn't that on-line?  

As I noted, at no time has BSA leveraged their size and experience.  Do not blame the bankruptcy on technology lapses, it had been that way for a years.  What it comes down to is the professionals that run the organization appear to not care about the customer experience of the volunteers that deliver the program.