2022 Membership Numbers

[Eagle1993]

13 hours ago, Tired_Eagle_Feathers said:

Time will tell.  Every DEI I've ever encountered does these things.  It's why they exist.  I just can't believe this woke stuff has penetrated the Boy Scouts of America of all things.

Could you add in "Antifa" into your comments?  I almost have OAN BINGO! 

The DEI & Citizenship in Society MB are very mild.  They are not on any sort of fringe of political stances.  The early release of C in S did have some concerning content, but that was removed. So far, I see no impact to day to day operations of any unit from DEI.  The biggest impact I have seen is council JTE which was actually created back in 2019 (prior to DEI).

Quote

 

Membership inclusion: Serve a diverse representation of the population in the council's territory.

Inclusion is measured by how well the council serves populations in varied ethnicities. The council's total market share of minority ethnicities (defined by the US census Bureau) is compared to the market share of the council in serving the US majority. Serving these minority ethnicities at the same rate would be 100% but could be greater than 100% if this market share is greater than that of the majority. The metric is based upon this percent comparison. Example: If the market share of the varied minority ethnicities is 6.0% and that of white-non Hispanic is 10.0% then the comparative rate is 60%.

• Achieve diversity with inclusive membership at least 45% of the general population level
• Achieve diversity with inclusive membership at least 60% of the general population level
• Achieve diversity with inclusive membership at least 75% of the general population level

 

 

So, for 1 line item in JTE, the "goal", at the council level, is to recruit your minority ethnicity at least 45% as well as you do the majority population and this was added back in 2019.

Is this "woke"?  I think, scouters who are attempting to be "helpful" and believe in the program, should be working to get more communities involved in scouting.  I think our country would be much better off if we double or triple the number of scouts from minority backgrounds in the program.  I live right next to a urban area ... I would love to see thousands of youth in scouts, getting exposure to the outdoors, performing service projects in their community, etc.  I don't see this as a bad goal at all.

Now, how you obtain that goal is a risk. I know this was attempted back in the 1970s and they changed the program. I haven't seen that yet (other than another citizenship MB ... which there were already too many of).  If that occurs (such as camping no longer required, ending patrol method), then I absolutely agree that your fears are valid and it would be damaging to everyone.  That is what I think we should be watching for vs worrying about being "woke".

In the end, I don't think DEI will be the driver of program changes.  I think plenty of suburban/exurban white kids (actually their parents) are driving the program to be day long merit badge clinics and summer camps just focused on advancement.  As someone who loves the potential of scouting, I see that as a far more serious threat than DEI (at least to date).

[InquisitiveScouter]

3 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

In the end, I don't think DEI will be the driver of program changes.

Agreed...the Cit in Soc MB is a pig in a poke.  With lipstick.

[Tired_Eagle_Feathers]

2 hours ago, Eagledad said:

My hope is National's motivation to appear progressive will be diluted by the common sense of the volunteers.

I've actually considered becoming a merit badge councillor for this badge just so I could make sure it gets taught properly.

[Tired_Eagle_Feathers]

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

Could you add in "Antifa" into your comments?  I almost have OAN BINGO! 

The DEI & Citizenship in Society MB are very mild.  They are not on any sort of fringe of political stances.  The early release of C in S did have some concerning content, but that was removed. So far, I see no impact to day to day operations of any unit from DEI.  The biggest impact I have seen is council JTE which was actually created back in 2019 (prior to DEI).

I have no idea what OAN is nor do I see what "Antifa" has to do with this.

I agree, the current incarnation of the new merit badge is fairly tame.  But there is a saying: "Once you let the nose of the camel in your tent before you know it you have the whole camel in your tent."

All of this woke stuff was pretty tame years ago and look where we are now.

[Tired_Eagle_Feathers]

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

Is this "woke"?  I think, scouters who are attempting to be "helpful" and believe in the program, should be working to get more communities involved in scouting.  I think our country would be much better off if we double or triple the number of scouts from minority backgrounds in the program.  I live right next to a urban area ... I would love to see thousands of youth in scouts, getting exposure to the outdoors, performing service projects in their community, etc.  I don't see this as a bad goal at all.

I think any "goals" that relate to group identity are woke and unnecessary.   Scouting is Scouting.  It appeals and us open to everyone from all races, creeds, and nationalities who believe in the ideals of scouting.  As long as this attitude is preserved, then the chips fall where they may, and everyone who wants to participate can.

Quote

Now, how you obtain that goal is a risk.

That's not a risk, that's pretty much a certainty.  DEI always ends up chasing arbitrary target numbers, and they will monkey with things however they can get away with to then achieve them. 

Maybe, DEI will be content with outreach programs to advertise Scouting to more people.  But I'm very skeptical.  Didn't even have DEI like but a year and already they have an Eagle-required merit badge for it.

[RememberSchiff]

I thought this might be interesting discussion material.

Scoutmaster Fred Young recruited Jakayla Armstrong to their church’s troop in 2019. At the time, he had to register Armstrong as a Lone Scout, since she was the only girl in the troop. He had faith that Armstrong could handle scouting with 10 other boys, he said, but he was wary at first.

“Some boys didn’t want girls in the Boy Scouts,” he said. “And you have to be prepared for that.”

Young said a handful of girls have joined other troops in the area, but none are African American – and his troop is the only all-Black troop in the region.

“She had to do everything the boys did: building fires, and sleeping out in the grass without a tent in a sleeping bag at night...She would never let them intimidate her. She knew what she wanted, and she wanted to be an Eagle Scout.”

She was the only Black girl at the summer camp, where Scouts spend a couple of weeks bonding and taking classes together. And as she took on more leadership roles, Armstrong said she also struggled to gain respect from the boys, who sometimes called her “bossy.”

“I was really looked at as an outsider,” she said. “It was hard enough to keep up with my classes, let alone [the boys’]. It was a hard experience, but I’m also glad for that experience because it taught me a lot.”

 

Three years later, she’d become the first Black girl in Alabama to earn an Eagle Scout badge.

Young believes the program has the potential to truly teach children how to accept and appreciate their differences, especially when various troops come together at camp.

“One thing that we try to instill in our kids is diversity,” SM Young said. “That’s where you get to meet new friends, new people, you get to see different personalities. And you learn to deal with that because you’re with these people for a week at a time.”

Armstrong said she hopes the program will do more to let girls know that scouting isn’t just for boys. She also has some advice for other girls who might follow in her footsteps: “Don’t give up,” she said, and “aim high.”

“Don’t let people saying ‘Boy Scouts’ discourage you from joining scouting,” she said. “Because it’s full of great opportunities.”

Scout salute to Eagle Scout Jakayla Armstrong. More interesting details at source:

https://www.al.com/educationlab/2022/05/mobile-student-is-the-first-black-female-eagle-scout-in-alabama-a-lot-of-people-are-looking-at-me.html

[skeptic]

The Lone Scout issue is interesting to me.  I know that I have read on this forum, as well as a couple of other threads on Scouting about girls joining as Lone Scouts due to not having enough girls for a troop.  So I know that it is allowed, or so it appears.  We have struggled to start a girl unit; but we got the minimum briefly, but soon lost one, then another.  I had suggested the Lone Scout direction anyway, but the local Executive says we do not meet criteria.  Of course, what he really means is that he want another number for a unit, evenif he then approves three when we started it, now down to one.  And since we no longer have the number we have one girl in limbo, and he still says no Lone Scout.  

To me, this is foolish, as if we get a few Lone Scouts to start, we might find enough others with time; and in the meantime, the young women get to do the program.  The one we still have has a brother in the troop who is our SPL and bugler.

Of course, I personally am still of the opinion that there should not need to be two untis separately.  Simply have a girl patrol, just as we have girl dens.  It is nuts to lose the small numbers due to that idiocy, in my view.  

[fred8033]

48 minutes ago, skeptic said:

Of course, I personally am still of the opinion that there should not need to be two units separately.  Simply have a girl patrol, just as we have girl dens.  It is nuts to lose the small numbers due to that idiocy, in my view.  

It's a stepwise adjustment.  Things will evolve over time.

[skeptic]

4 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

It's a stepwise adjustment.  Things will evolve over time.

For me, it is past the time for evolving and time to make the logical change.  How many more girls would already be in units if they made just that one adjustment?  What do I know? I tend to look at thing with reality and logic.

[SiouxRanger]

6 hours ago, skeptic said:

The Lone Scout issue is interesting to me.  I know that I have read on this forum, as well as a couple of other threads on Scouting about girls joining as Lone Scouts due to not having enough girls for a troop.  So I know that it is allowed, or so it appears.  We have struggled to start a girl unit; but we got the minimum briefly, but soon lost one, then another.  I had suggested the Lone Scout direction anyway, but the local Executive says we do not meet criteria.  Of course, what he really means is that he want another number for a unit, evenif he then approves three when we started it, now down to one.  And since we no longer have the number we have one girl in limbo, and he still says no Lone Scout.  

To me, this is foolish, as if we get a few Lone Scouts to start, we might find enough others with time; and in the meantime, the young women get to do the program.  The one we still have has a brother in the troop who is our SPL and bugler.

Of course, I personally am still of the opinion that there should not need to be two untis separately.  Simply have a girl patrol, just as we have girl dens.  It is nuts to lose the small numbers due to that idiocy, in my view.  

I agree.

Truth is the most valuable thing we have. Let us economize it.“ —  Mark Twain

Well...no.  Truth should be spread far and wide.  All who care to listen, understand, and learn should be welcome to the classroom.

Scouting is the classroom. Fun is the teacher. Wisdom is the lesson.

I come from a family of very smart women. Much brighter than me.

I was at Philmont when the first women Rangers were hired. Top class individuals.

I make no apologies that I take lessons and knowledge from whatever source I can.  I learn by listening, not talking.  Talking is rather selfish.

Many folks with far fewer hours in the classroom than me have taught me many valuable things. And I respect them for their unknowing assistance in my education and development (and development of "life perspective.")

That there is even a discussion on whether girls should be ALLOWED to participate in Boy Scouting puzzles me. Why should girls be denied the chance to learn from the BSA Program? It has great things to offer.

And no one should be denied the opportunity to participate.

“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.”   ― Margaret Mead

Seems that it is usually only one.

Why would an institution deny opportunity to half the population?

[InquisitiveScouter]

7 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

Why would an institution deny opportunity to half the population?

Although I support female youth in Scouting, the answer to your question is that we are wired differently, and there is some benefit in single gender programming.

[SiouxRanger]

7 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Although I support female youth in Scouting, the answer to your question is that we are wired differently, and there is some benefit in single gender programming.

And cannot that be done with separate male-female patrols?

[scoutldr]

1 hour ago, SiouxRanger said:

Why would an institution deny opportunity to half the population?

I recently received an email from the HOA of a rental property that I own.  It was announcing a "learn to swim" program in the HOA pool and the only ones eligible are "children on the free/reduced lunch program at school, OR minorities (whatever that means) of any age."  The program is called the "Really Awesome People Swimming Program".  Being a former Red Cross WSI and BSA Lifeguard Counselor, I wrote to the HOA manager expressing my belief that this is not "equitable", since I pay the same HOA dues as everyone else, and my strong belief that swimming is a valuable life skill that everyone should learn, even white kids of hard-working parents who apparently do not meet the criteria of being "Really Awesome" because of their skin color.  Rest assured that race discrimination is alive and thriving.

[Eagledad]

7 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

I recently received an email from the HOA of a rental property that I own.  It was announcing a "learn to swim" program in the HOA pool and the only ones eligible are "children on the free/reduced lunch program at school, OR minorities (whatever that means) of any age."  The program is called the "Really Awesome People Swimming Program".  Being a former Red Cross WSI and BSA Lifeguard Counselor, I wrote to the HOA manager expressing my belief that this is not "equitable", since I pay the same HOA dues as everyone else, and my strong belief that swimming is a valuable life skill that everyone should learn, even white kids of hard-working parents who apparently do not meet the criteria of being "Really Awesome" because of their skin color.  Rest assured that race discrimination is alive and thriving.

While I agree with your situation, a program that uses the enhanced power of a single gender environment to provide youth with quality character growth is not racist or bigoted. In fact, I believe a youth program that uses servant leadership principles and guidance leads the youth to develop habits away from that self serving perspective.

Barry

[skeptic]

5 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Although I support female youth in Scouting, the answer to your question is that we are wired differently, and there is some benefit in single gender programming.

Being wired differently is not an answer, simply an excuse.  If the youth can function in school groups or church groups and so on, then they should be able to do so in Scouting.  As noted more than once from my own experience as a sub teacher, which meant many variants in students, groups became balanced pretty much once stabilized.  While middle school girls often took over a group initially, in many case the boy(s) came forward to challenge.  And in many of those, the group output became far more viable and reflected both sides, so to speak.  Sorry, the psychologists that claim the males are intimidated by females in that age group are not working with complete data.  Too often, they construct their own slanted surveys and so on to arrive at their predetermined position.  Again, I spent many years in a half dozen middle schools and below, and what I noted was almost universal.  

We might also note the best of the Ships and Crews in our own programs that are universally mixed in gender, yet function very well with the various points of view, based on gender perception, seeming to lead to a better balance and more success.  

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by skeptic
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