69RoadRunner Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 My next area to research for a do it yourself high adventure trip in 2023 is Yellowstone. Has anyone been able to get a group backcountry permit? Another option is using campgrounds and day hike. I might combine this with a loop of Cirque of the Towers as the Wind River Range is a bucket list place for me. I know it gets crowded there, but at least there are no permit issues (yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 A troop in our district did. This was more than a decade ago, sI don’t think I have the materials online. But is was cost effective and they seemed to enjoy some challenging hikes above the tree line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69RoadRunner Posted February 14, 2022 Author Share Posted February 14, 2022 35 minutes ago, qwazse said: A troop in our district did. This was more than a decade ago, sI don’t think I have the materials online. But is was cost effective and they seemed to enjoy some challenging hikes above the tree line. Thanks. I went there when my wife and I went skiing in Big Sky 20 years ago. That was just a day trip. Apparently Old Faithful is less faithful these days, but still impressive. I'm working on presenting multiple viable options to the troop. Viable for a group is the greatest challenge. I always want high adventure to be a very different experience from what they can get here in Virginia. Philmont, NT and Sea Base do that. This might be my last HA trip with the troop, so I suggested we try something different and build our own trip rather than just rotate the national ones (NT would be up next). This one, if I can make it work, would be my top choice. Spend a few days in Yellowstone then drive south and spend a few days to do Cirque of the Towers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 That would be much prettier than Philmont. There is a scout camp 8 miles from Yellowstone- Camp Buffalo Bill (campbuffalobill.com) that has a program that uses Yellowstone. I'm not sure but maybe you could just use their camp as a campsite for day hikes. It wouldn't be free but it would be nicer than the tent camping in Yellowstone. While wind river might not have permit requirements they might have a "number of heartbeats" (so people and pack animals) requirements for group size. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69RoadRunner Posted February 15, 2022 Author Share Posted February 15, 2022 22 hours ago, MattR said: That would be much prettier than Philmont. There is a scout camp 8 miles from Yellowstone- Camp Buffalo Bill (campbuffalobill.com) that has a program that uses Yellowstone. I'm not sure but maybe you could just use their camp as a campsite for day hikes. It wouldn't be free but it would be nicer than the tent camping in Yellowstone. While wind river might not have permit requirements they might have a "number of heartbeats" (so people and pack animals) requirements for group size. Yes, they have a limit, but I believe it was 15, so more than we would take. We wouldn't even need to count some of the scouts as livestock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NealOnWheels Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 A few years ago our troop our made a backpacking trek through nearby Grand Tetons. This was the most beautiful trek I have ever been on. We met someone from Australia backpacking solo. He was in the US for a couple months and was traveling all over going to where he thought were the best backpacking locations. He only had a few days left and was torn between visiting Yellowstone and Wind River before heading home. He considered the Wind River the best backpacking the lower 48 had to offer but Yellowstone had thermal features that are rare and he might not otherwise have a chance to see. Ever since then I wanted to go to Wind River. I was so jealous of the guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueandSilverBear Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 On 2/14/2022 at 1:20 PM, MattR said: That would be much prettier than Philmont. There is a scout camp 8 miles from Yellowstone- Camp Buffalo Bill (campbuffalobill.com) that has a program that uses Yellowstone. I'm not sure but maybe you could just use their camp as a campsite for day hikes. It wouldn't be free but it would be nicer than the tent camping in Yellowstone. While wind river might not have permit requirements they might have a "number of heartbeats" (so people and pack animals) requirements for group size. I was on an ill-fated backpacking trip out of Camp Buffalo Bill 20 years ago… https://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/wyoming/texas-boy-scouts-head-for-home-after-being-stranded-overnight/article_93767415-3367-5b9d-bfae-fd2f0e8386fc.html The situation was more due to physical limitations of some of our adult leaders, but a wild one for sure. Beautiful country and the highlight of my youth Scouting experience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69RoadRunner Posted February 23, 2022 Author Share Posted February 23, 2022 18 hours ago, BlueandSilverBear said: I was on an ill-fated backpacking trip out of Camp Buffalo Bill 20 years ago… https://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/wyoming/texas-boy-scouts-head-for-home-after-being-stranded-overnight/article_93767415-3367-5b9d-bfae-fd2f0e8386fc.html The situation was more due to physical limitations of some of our adult leaders, but a wild one for sure. Beautiful country and the highlight of my youth Scouting experience! Yikes! While doing cost estimates, I'm including the cost of service for a Garmin InReach mini. I'm willing to buy it (and likely sell in eBay when done). I'm not sure I'd do much off trail stuff in an area I wasn't familiar with when on a scout trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denibug72 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Our troop is in the midst of planning a western HA trip including Yellowstone right now. The permit process has changed to a lottery this year, so we're not sure how things are going to shake out. Basically, you pay $10 to get a spot in the lottery, and you might get a chance at a permit. We've got a short backpacking segment in Yellowstone, but we're trying to come up with Plan A, B, C, D, and E just in case sites are booked before we can get in the system to get them. We've been scrambling to get other campsites also. The council that runs Camp Buffalo Bill is short staffed & in the middle of a merger, so when we contacted them about staying there for one night, they said it might be possible, but wouldn't know for at least a few more weeks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69RoadRunner Posted February 23, 2022 Author Share Posted February 23, 2022 15 minutes ago, denibug72 said: Our troop is in the midst of planning a western HA trip including Yellowstone right now. The permit process has changed to a lottery this year, so we're not sure how things are going to shake out. Basically, you pay $10 to get a spot in the lottery, and you might get a chance at a permit. We've got a short backpacking segment in Yellowstone, but we're trying to come up with Plan A, B, C, D, and E just in case sites are booked before we can get in the system to get them. We've been scrambling to get other campsites also. The council that runs Camp Buffalo Bill is short staffed & in the middle of a merger, so when we contacted them about staying there for one night, they said it might be possible, but wouldn't know for at least a few more weeks. I did see that they, and other areas, are doing the lottery thing rather than the Ticketmaster method. I was thinking if Plan A, backcountry permits, doesn't work, Plan B would be trying to get one of the many campsites in the area and do day hikes. Then drive south and do a few days in the Cirque of the Towers, which currently doesn't require permits. Plan C, well, that could be more backpacking in the Wind River Range or something else with no permits required. The thing that makes me most nervous is not having first hand experience there. Also, it's not like going to Philmont the first time where the whole place is set up for scout troops. I've watched some videos of people doing the Cirque loop. It seems clear going clockwise over Texas Pass is easier than counterclockwise. I wouldn't worry if I went by myself, but what about 8-10 scouts? Please update this post or make your own with what you end up doing. I think many others would benefit from that knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denibug72 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 I will post an update as we go through the lottery and beyond. Right now, we're counting on getting those backcountry campsites because everything else that's reservable within the park is unavailable (or not big enough to handle our group). We picked up the campsites we needed on either side of the backpacking trek a few months ago, but now we're scrambling to figure out a backup plan if the backcountry permit falls through. After our Yellowstone segment, we've got a group site at Grand Tetons NP to base camp out of, and there weren't many of those left either. My advice would be to start reserving campsites as early as you can, and potentially an extra one to cover your backcountry days in case you don't get a permit. Cancelling reservations is pretty easy, and you'd have the peace of mind that you've got a backup if the permitting doesn't work out. Also, budget a lot extra for transportation costs - it's amazing how high the prices are for rental vehicles right now. I admit - I share your apprehension about this type of a trip - last time I was in Yellowstone was early 2000's, and I've never backpacked there before. Heck, this will only be my 3rd longer range backpacking trip, and for most of these scouts, their first time hiking/backpacking at elevation. It will be an interesting adventure.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69RoadRunner Posted February 23, 2022 Author Share Posted February 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, denibug72 said: I will post an update as we go through the lottery and beyond. Right now, we're counting on getting those backcountry campsites because everything else that's reservable within the park is unavailable (or not big enough to handle our group). We picked up the campsites we needed on either side of the backpacking trek a few months ago, but now we're scrambling to figure out a backup plan if the backcountry permit falls through. After our Yellowstone segment, we've got a group site at Grand Tetons NP to base camp out of, and there weren't many of those left either. My advice would be to start reserving campsites as early as you can, and potentially an extra one to cover your backcountry days in case you don't get a permit. Cancelling reservations is pretty easy, and you'd have the peace of mind that you've got a backup if the permitting doesn't work out. Also, budget a lot extra for transportation costs - it's amazing how high the prices are for rental vehicles right now. I admit - I share your apprehension about this type of a trip - last time I was in Yellowstone was early 2000's, and I've never backpacked there before. Heck, this will only be my 3rd longer range backpacking trip, and for most of these scouts, their first time hiking/backpacking at elevation. It will be an interesting adventure.... Yeah, we're doing Philmont this year and renting a van from Denver airport and wow is it expensive. I'm hoping things are better next year when we do a roll your own trip. I'm trying to find a few viable trips to present to the troop for 2023. Viable for a group of scouts is the greatest challenge. The scouts have done none of these trips I'm looking at, so they'd all be great experiences. My wise Committee Chair said pick trips I'd love to do since I'm doing all this work and the scouts will love it, too. We've been rotating between Philmont, Sea Base and Northern Tier. I thought it would be nice to do something on our own. Can you tell me about the Tetons part of your trip? That could be part of a Plan B for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 @denibug72, the best way to increase your comfort level is backpacking every month before your trip. Every scout and scouter needs to be very comfortable with their gear. I keep my backpack at the end of my bed (much to Mrs. Q’s consternation), and I have no clue what’s in it after three months idle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 On 2/23/2022 at 5:26 PM, 69RoadRunner said: Yeah, we're doing Philmont this year and renting a van from Denver airport and wow is it expensive. I'm hoping things are better next year when we do a roll your own trip. I'm trying to find a few viable trips to present to the troop for 2023. Viable for a group of scouts is the greatest challenge. The scouts have done none of these trips I'm looking at, so they'd all be great experiences. My wise Committee Chair said pick trips I'd love to do since I'm doing all this work and the scouts will love it, too. We've been rotating between Philmont, Sea Base and Northern Tier. I thought it would be nice to do something on our own. Can you tell me about the Tetons part of your trip? That could be part of a Plan B for us. A few thoughts; I seem to remember crews taking a train to Philmont from Denver. troops and churches might help get a crew to Philmont using their own vehicles. We did several backing trips through summer camp high adventure programs. That was 20 years ago and the economy may have stopped those programs, but they were all over the U.S. and basically just provide a guide and the rest is on your own. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69RoadRunner Posted February 27, 2022 Author Share Posted February 27, 2022 8 hours ago, Eagledad said: A few thoughts; I seem to remember crews taking a train to Philmont from Denver. troops and churches might help get a crew to Philmont using their own vehicles. We did several backing trips through summer camp high adventure programs. That was 20 years ago and the economy may have stopped those programs, but they were all over the U.S. and basically just provide a guide and the rest is on your own. Barry We were able to get a van that fit our budget. I like the flexibility of having the van so we can do side trips as time allows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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