ThenNow Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 58 minutes ago, skeptic said: "Uunderfunded" is in the eye of the beholder. I'm not sure that's accurate. It's a number that can be compared to other numbers which makes it relative, but not subjective. In relative terms, when you consider the overall exposure of the insurance carriers, the awards given in other child sexual abuse settlements and bankruptcies, and the roughly $33,000 per claimant in this case, it is grossly underfunded. It has to be seen in context. I believe that is the point. No? It's like saying, "You gave the neighbor kid how much to mow the backyard? $500? That's ridiculous! My brother pays his guy $25!" What is not stated is the man's "backyard" is 5 acres. His brother's, 5000 sf. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clbkbx Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, ThenNow said: it is grossly underfunded. It has to be seen in context. I believe that is the point. Yes. This was formerly front-and-center from the TCC but now they are supporting the plan. It's not just attorney's fees being spent... there has been a significant effort to estimate the value of the claims based on the Proofs of Claim submitted to date. You can read through the estimates, rebuttals, etc through Omni and the links others have posted on this forum. Those estimates are much less than the amount currently in the Trust and much less than any reasonable estimate of potential additional insurance settlements. The TCC's previous "historically low" settlement comment was truthful and, after the plan was voted down, used to increase YP efforts (which is sad... this should have been a base level, not a negotiating tactic) and put some additional pressure on non-settling entities (which, even if realized, will not add up to anything near what experts have estimated). Hence my question: why is the choice between accepting the plan or BSA goes through Chapter 7? The settling insurers and to a lesser degree settling LC's/CO's are the entities being benefited by the "still historically low" settlement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, clbkbx said: Hence my question: why is the choice between accepting the plan or BSA goes through Chapter 7? The settling insurers and to a lesser degree settling LC's/CO's are the entities being benefited by the "still historically low" settlement. I don't believe that's the choice. If the Plan is not confirmed, there is always the dicey BSA only (Toggle) Plan. As many have said, they can't be forced into a 7 and would never choose it. Edited February 25, 2022 by ThenNow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clbkbx Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 2 hours ago, ThenNow said: I don't believe that's the choice. Thanks, @ThenNow, I had forgotten about that. I keep hearing: Chapter 7 is bad, vote for this plan. It seems my real gripe is that the settling insurance companies are contributing so little. I'd love to hear if others are able to confirm if the IR is a way to get non-settling entities to settle. Here we go, TCC IR video: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred8033 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, clbkbx said: ... able to confirm if the IR is a way to get non-settling entities to settle. It feels like there is settlement marketing in the term "independent review". Isn't this just that a victim can still sue/bring a claim in court? If an insurance debtor has not settled in this case, that party isn't really subject to any mediation or bankruptcy trustee or other mechanism enabled by the current settlement. Is "independent review" a euphanism for the victim's right to bring their case to court? It's infering a settlement agreement enables a special independent review as a benefit of the current negotiated settlement. It sounds like that "independent review" is there against non-participating insurance companies whether or not the victims settle with the other debtors. Edited February 25, 2022 by fred8033 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle1993 Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 Objections coming in again on the plan. US Trustee once again objects and now adds in more concerns about the IR process. 08a0295e-d9b5-49d8-9d9e-714eeea939db_9015.pdf (omniagentsolutions.com) Quote But the whole Independent Review Option process, including its $20,000 fee, does not meet the good faith requirement of section 1129(a)(3) of the Bankruptcy Code Quote Article XIII provides that the Settlement Trustee may, after the conclusion of the Independent Review Option, reject the recommendation of the neutral third-party evaluator. Thus, it is possible for an abuse claimant to seek independent review, pay the more than $20,000 fee for the process, obtain a reviewed claim amount either higher or much higher than that awarded by the Settlement Trustee—and have the Settlement Trustee nullify it all by rejecting the higher claim amount. The Independent Review Option is illusory Quote Forcing claimants to pay more than $20,000 to elect independent review is excessive. By comparison, the fee for a debtor to file chapter 11 is currently $1,738, and the fee to file an adversary proceeding is currently $350. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 (edited) Final Voting Report for Class 8 Claimants - Accept/Reject by Local Council. (This is the full vote not the re-vote, to be clear.) 9032.pdf Edited February 26, 2022 by ThenNow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttsy Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 21 hours ago, fred8033 said: Is "independent review" a euphanism for the victim's right to bring their case to court? It's infering a settlement agreement enables a special independent review as a benefit of the current negotiated settlement. It sounds like that "independent review" is there against non-participating insurance companies whether or not the victims settle with the other debtors. "The Independent Review Option is illusory." --From the United States Trustee's Supplemental Objection to Plan. https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/08a0295e-d9b5-49d8-9d9e-714eeea939db_9015.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 (edited) On 2/25/2022 at 3:18 PM, clbkbx said: Here we go, TCC IR video: Thank you, TCC. This was very helpful. Of course, I have 9.62 additional questions, while scratching 18.38 of them off the list. Edited February 26, 2022 by ThenNow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MYCVAStory Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, ThenNow said: Thank you, TCC. This was very helpful. Of course, I have 9.62 additional questions, while scratching 18.38 of them off the list. Yep, there's no way that everyone's individual situation can be addressed but at least this helps when we speak to our attorneys. I hear those saying..."But I'm pro se!" That's where the Trust is really going to need to continue the discussion of how this is all working and what it means. The TCC mentioned that it will be meeting and stressing communication with the Trustee if/when he/she is appointed. At least this is a start given how early it is in the process. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleRider Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 I'm beginning to wonder if filing a claim was even worth reliving the past.Its clear as day that BSA don't give no more of a damn about us today than they gave 40-50 years ago about us!;!. Sorry in advance if my comment is posted in the wrong place.Ive been clean and sober for 4 1/2 years now and I've just about fell off the wagon a couple of times since opening up those old wounds They say time heals all wounds,that may be true but not at all true for the abused,raped or whatever you call it. It's no easier today than it was when it happened. Again sorry if I shouldn't have posted here.Just needed to vent and ask for prayers that I can stay strong enough not to give in to them temptations 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 16 minutes ago, PaleRider said: They say time heals all wounds It does, but still leaves tremendous scars and sensitivity. One minute at a time, brother...one minute at a time... Don't know you, but my heart goes out to you. Not much solace, I know, but sometimes just knowing you are not alone helps. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleRider Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said: It does, but still leaves tremendous scars and sensitivity. One minute at a time, brother...one minute at a time... Don't know you, but my heart goes out to you. Not much solace, I know, but sometimes just knowing you are not alone helps. Thanks brother.And the same to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MYCVAStory Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 2 hours ago, PaleRider said: I'm beginning to wonder if filing a claim was even worth reliving the past.Its clear as day that BSA don't give no more of a damn about us today than they gave 40-50 years ago about us!;!. We all have different paths to follow. What's right for some isn't right for others. The past was a nightmare and the present finds Survivors in a legal process designed to address business and not abuse. The reality though is that this may be our only chance to be involved. Follow the path you you feel is best but just remember that some day this will be in the rear view mirror and we'll all need to ask then whether we did today what we needed to. Hindsight's a bitch and always 20-20 but usually favors action rather than inaction. Hang in there and I hope you find some peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleRider Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 3 hours ago, MYCVAStory said: We all have different paths to follow. What's right for some isn't right for others. The past was a nightmare and the present finds Survivors in a legal process designed to address business and not abuse. The reality though is that this may be our only chance to be involved. Follow the path you you feel is best but just remember that some day this will be in the rear view mirror and we'll all need to ask then whether we did today what we needed to. Hindsight's a bitch and always 20-20 but usually favors action rather than inaction. Hang in there and I hope you find some peace. What I can't understand is how can adults run a program and have knowledge of kids being abused and they turn a blind eye on it.Put a name in a book out the book as far back in the filing cabinet as they can.Kick the pedophile out and not call the law.Thats where I'm hung up at. I just can't understand what kind of people do that. Cause I can say without a doubt if the tables were turned and I was the adult that had knowledge of the abuse I would be kicking somebody's ass all the way to the jailhouse. They didn't care back then and today we are nothing more than a claim number to them. I haven't figured out who outside of Scouts I will have to worry the hell out of to keep the BSA in check about them doing any and everything in their power to stop this from happening to any other kids.I don't want anyone to have to go through pure hell until their 45 -50 years old before they even think about figuring out what's what.I thought about writing congress about this but it will only fall on deaf ears.If anyone has ideas on who I can worry the hell out of to make it happen please share your thoughts. BECAUSE THIS HAS TO STOP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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