Den Leader Award for dual hatted folks?

[Eagledad]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

If you wish to have this "on your record", then you will need to go thru the paperwork process.

Did you know you each adult has an official awards record as well?  If you are on good terms with your registrar, you should ask for your own record. 

Please be mindful of your registrar's time; I do not recommend you ask for this frivolously.

Things may have changed in the last 20 years with the technology, but inaccurate training records, as well as scout advancement records, was not unusual.

Barry

[mrjohns2]

2 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Did you know you each adult has an official awards record as well?  If you are on good terms with your registrar, you should ask for your own record. 

Key 3’s can pull this from my.scouting for those in their unit. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

3 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

Key 3’s can pull this from my.scouting for those in their unit. 

Awesome!  I did not know you could do this!  Thanks!

In my.scouting (if you are Key 3 or a delegate) under the Roster, select the individual, then select Print, and from the pull down menu select Unit Advancement Details Report.  This will generate a report which looks like a complete record.  Here's a sample of mine....dates removed to protect identity 😜

	Adult Award	Veteran Award - 20 Years
	Adult Award	DoD-USM Outstanding Volunteer Svc.
	Training Awards	C51: Den Leader Training Award
	Training Awards	C54: Cub Scouter Training Award
	Training Awards	S41: Boy Scout Leader's Training Aw
	Adult Award	Veteran Award - 20 Years
	Youth Award	Historic Trails Award
	Training Awards	D61: District Comm Scouter Tng Awd
	Adult Award	Veteran Award - 30 Years
	Adult Award	Unit Leader Award of Merit - SM
	Training Awards	S40: Scoutmaster's Key

[fred8033]

58 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Awesome!  I did not know you could do this!  Thanks!

"Historic Trails Award" is the one I always wanted to earn.  

[5thGenTexan]

When I got my DL award the CM couldnt get it together and kept saying the Council office lost it among other excuses.  I finally took it down and turned it in and explained  why there was no CM signature.  Said he didnt care, just give it to me.  It showed up not long after that. 

[Eagle94-A1]

On 2/15/2022 at 10:35 AM, Eagledad said:

Things may have changed in the last 20 years with the technology, but inaccurate training records, as well as scout advancement records, was not unusual.

Barry

Still have issues with both today, even with technology. Back then I remember having to tell the Philmont Training Center Faculty member in my district that according to the council's records, he was untrained. That was not a fun experience.

18 years ago when National told councils to clean up their training records, it was a nightmare. In my council, anyone who had training done over a year prior was "untrained." One of the issues was that  BSA decided only to list only the most current Training courses titles.  None of the older course titles were listed.And some of our Scouters took training in the 1960s. To deal with the situation, The council pro's told us to  use the dates for the original training, but put in the title and codes for the current training. That worked for about 2-3 years. Then National realized they screwed up by not including the older training, any added the older courses, as well as time lines for the courses. That deleted all the work that was done with the older courses as they were beyond the date ranges of the current courses. Thankfully I kept paper and digital copies of all my work, and just had to resubmit. However the council and some training chairs did not keep those records, and they had to redo all the work again.

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

24 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Still have issues with both today, even with technology. Back then I remember having to tell the Philmont Training Center Faculty member in my district that according to the council's records, he was untrained. That was not a fun experience.

18 years ago when National told councils to clean up their training records, it was a nightmare. In my council, anyone who had training done over a year prior was "untrained." One of the issues was that  BSA decided only to list only the most current Training courses titles.  None of the older course titles were listed.And some of our Scouters took training in the 1960s. To deal with the situation, The council pro's told us to  use the dates for the original training, but put in the title and codes for the current training. That worked for about 2-3 years. Then National realized they screwed up by not including the older training, any added the older courses, as well as time lines for the courses. That deleted all the work that was done with the older courses as they were beyond the date ranges of the current courses. Thankfully I kept paper and digital copies of all my work, and just had to resubmit. However the council and some training chairs did not keep those records, and they had to redo all the work again.

 

I had to laugh here when I put in my paperwork to be a Scoutmaster about 7 years ago now.  The council registrar told me I had to do IOLS...

Eagle Scout, 15 years camp staff, former ASM/SM for 11 years, 4 x NCS grad (Scoutcraft x 2, Aquatics instuctor, Commissioner), Woodbadge (1992l...would they grandfather me for that requirement?  

Nope. 

OK, so I took IOLS...and was deeply unimpressed.  There were three instructors that were awesome...the rest, I wondered why they were there. The level of knowledge and skills was extremely lacking.  I began to understand why Scouts repeatedly came up short on skills and knowledge.

So, I volunteered to help teach for the next few years.  

[Oldscout448]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I had to laugh here when I put in my paperwork to be a Scoutmaster about 7 years ago now.  The council registrar told me I had to do IOLS...

Eagle Scout, 15 years camp staff, former ASM/SM for 11 years, 4 x NCS grad (Scoutcraft x 2, Aquatics instuctor, Commissioner), Woodbadge (1992l...would they grandfather me for that requirement?  

Nope. 

OK, so I took IOLS...and was deeply unimpressed.  There were three instructors that were awesome...the rest, I wondered why they were there. The level of knowledge and skills was extremely lacking.  I began to understand why Scouts repeatedly came up short on skills and knowledge.

So, I volunteered to help teach for the next few years.  

I can't match your resume but I was quite unimpressed with most of my IOLS  instruction as well.   I offered to help teach too but was told that my services were not needed.  

[Eagle94-A1]

3 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I had to laugh here when I put in my paperwork to be a Scoutmaster about 7 years ago now.  The council registrar told me I had to do IOLS...

Eagle Scout, 15 years camp staff, former ASM/SM for 11 years, 4 x NCS grad (Scoutcraft x 2, Aquatics instuctor, Commissioner), Woodbadge (1992l...would they grandfather me for that requirement?  

Nope.

Last time I taught ITOLS, I had 3 adult staffers who needed ITOLS to be "Trained." First individual needing "training" was an Eagle Scout who worked summer camp as a youth, including First Year CamperProgram,  combat medic in Iraq, and went to Philmont once. Next up was another Eagle Scout summer camp staffer who went to Philmont twice. Last but not least, the third adult staffer was another Eagle Scout summer camp staffer who went to ' 89 NSJ, was combat vet, AND was a WB 3 beader. I go them to teach in their specialty skills.

Thankfully the Scouters appreciated the course and had fun, even the two who I would have put on staff if I had known them in advance.

 

3 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

OK, so I took IOLS...and was deeply unimpressed.  There were three instructors that were awesome...the rest, I wondered why they were there. The level of knowledge and skills was extremely lacking.  I began to understand why Scouts repeatedly came up short on skills and knowledge.

So, I volunteered to help teach for the next few years.  

 

2 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

I can't match your resume but I was quite unimpressed with most of my IOLS  instruction as well.   I offered to help teach too but was told that my services were not needed.  

 

Have you seen the ITOLS Syllabus? The one I was was absolutely horrible with a lot of information from older courses and books completely missing. I had to supplement info with photocopies from my old fieldbook and other BSA publications. And the current course is worse. They took out the section on first aid.

BUT the part that really TICKS me off is the "one and done" mentality it promotes. As the adults do certain skills, you are suppose to give them 'rank" cut outs.

[InquisitiveScouter]

3 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

I can't match your resume but I was quite unimpressed with most of my IOLS  instruction as well.   I offered to help teach too but was told that my services were not needed.  

You must be a wave-maker like me😎😎😎

[Armymutt]

On 2/15/2022 at 3:23 PM, InquisitiveScouter said:

Awesome!  I did not know you could do this!  Thanks!

In my.scouting (if you are Key 3 or a delegate) under the Roster, select the individual, then select Print, and from the pull down menu select Unit Advancement Details Report.  This will generate a report which looks like a complete record.  Here's a sample of mine....dates removed to protect identity 😜

	Adult Award	Veteran Award - 20 Years
	Adult Award	DoD-USM Outstanding Volunteer Svc.
	Training Awards	C51: Den Leader Training Award
	Training Awards	C54: Cub Scouter Training Award
	Training Awards	S41: Boy Scout Leader's Training Aw
	Adult Award	Veteran Award - 20 Years
	Youth Award	Historic Trails Award
	Training Awards	D61: District Comm Scouter Tng Awd
	Adult Award	Veteran Award - 30 Years
	Adult Award	Unit Leader Award of Merit - SM
	Training Awards	S40: Scoutmaster's Key

I did this for my COR.  Apparently our council hasn't updated anything.  She has a Silver Beaver along with a bunch of other knots.  Nada in the awards section.

[InquisitiveScouter]

5 minutes ago, Armymutt said:

I did this for my COR.  Apparently our council hasn't updated anything.  She has a Silver Beaver along with a bunch of other knots.  Nada in the awards section.

Very normal for this...record keeping isn't your average council's strong suit.

[fred8033]

6 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I had to laugh here when I put in my paperwork to be a Scoutmaster about 7 years ago now.  The council registrar told me I had to do IOLS...

Eagle Scout, 15 years camp staff, former ASM/SM for 11 years, 4 x NCS grad (Scoutcraft x 2, Aquatics instuctor, Commissioner), Woodbadge (1992l...would they grandfather me for that requirement?  

Nope. 

OK, so I took IOLS...and was deeply unimpressed.  There were three instructors that were awesome...the rest, I wondered why they were there. The level of knowledge and skills was extremely lacking.  I began to understand why Scouts repeatedly came up short on skills and knowledge.

So, I volunteered to help teach for the next few years.  

Ok.  Not really a secret, but something I forgot from years ago.  When I took IOLS, somehow it did not get recorded and there was confusion.  ...  I was relatively new still at that time.  I didn't know I could easily have called the council training director and get it resolved.  ... BUT ... I worked near a council training staff person who had taught part of IOLS.  That person and I met over a few several lunch hours and went thru key points in the syllabus.  I went thru the skills and topics.  He signed off on my IOLS and it got recorded.  

IMHO ... there should be a test out option.  BUT, the training is often not about any specific skill.  It's often more about attitude, meeting people and how to be a scout leader.  IMHO ... if you can show ... such as in the above post ... that you have that experience, you should be able to test out.  ... plus ... after all the experience above, I doubt IOLS would significantly change someones decision making. 

Edited April 18, 2022 by fred8033

[Eagle94-A1]

23 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

IMHO ... there should be a test out option.  BUT, the training is often not about any specific skill.  It's often more about attitude, meeting people and how to be a scout leader.  IMHO ... if you can show ... such as in the above post ... that you have that experience, you should be able to test out.  ... plus ... after all the experience above, I doubt IOLS would significantly change someones decision making. 

 

For a VERY brief period, I want to say  it was 2014-16, a test out option was allowed by national. One of my friends was district training chair, and his eventual successor was one of those who did it.

One of the reasons why I used staff that needed ITOLS, but I personally knew had the knowledge, skills, and abilities already and could teach the course. Plus ever since the training records S.N.A.F.U.  in 2007/08 I was told to ALWAYS list instructors as students as well.

[InquisitiveScouter]

28 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 

For a VERY brief period, I want to say  it was 2014-16, a test out option was allowed by national. One of my friends was district training chair, and his eventual successor was one of those who did it.

One of the reasons why I used staff that needed ITOLS, but I personally knew had the knowledge, skills, and abilities already and could teach the course. Plus ever since the training records S.N.A.F.U.  in 2007/08 I was told to ALWAYS list instructors as students as well.

Wondered why they did this...makes sense.