Chapter 11 Announced - Part 7 - Plan 5.0 - Voting/Confirmation

[PaleRider]

On 2/6/2022 at 8:53 PM, Eagle1970 said:

I'm sure all won't agree.  But I am morphing into acceptance.  We are all getting older....in my case, fairly quickly.  Before the BK, many of us had decided either to leave the whole matter faded with the time that had passed or we had no case, due to SoL (or both).  We have been through various degrees of reliving our abuse.  That has not been good for our mental health, especially combined with the other fun things going on around us.  Dwelling on this is not how I want to spend my sunset years.  BSA was negligent, without a doubt.  My abuser is a piece, without a doubt.  We're not going to get much compensation, but what we do get sends the message that we have at least been heard.  Fix it for future boys and then it's just time to move on.

This whole bankruptcy ordeal has never been about us victims.Its been all about the national and their money.Victems have over a hundred years of proof of that.They worry more about money and making sure their reputations not be tainted.The could care less about the 38 years of hell I went through because they did not protect me and all the others.Putting the names of these sick men didn't protect us it protected the pedophiles and the Boy Scouts Of America.They could care less about the victims if they did they would have started fixing this problem with the very first case that was reported.They didn't.I wasn't even going to file a claim but the more I researched and seen all the cover ups BSA are involved in I filed a claim.And at this point I will dance a jig if they get shutdown.And to be honest that is exactly what needs to I'm sorry but any establishment that is for kids that cover up these horrific crimes does not have any business running a program like BSA.THEY FAILED EVERY SINGLE VICTEM.SO GOOD RIDDANCE BSA.IM DAMAGED FOR LIFE NOT MATTER HOW MUCH THERAPY I GO THROUGH.

[johnsch322]

24 minutes ago, PaleRider said:

This whole bankruptcy ordeal has never been about us victims.Its been all about the national and their money.Victems have over a hundred years of proof of that.They worry more about money and making sure their reputations not be tainted.The could care less about the 38 years of hell I went through because they did not protect me and all the others.Putting the names of these sick men didn't protect us it protected the pedophiles and the Boy Scouts Of America.They could care less about the victims if they did they would have started fixing this problem with the very first case that was reported.They didn't.I wasn't even going to file a claim but the more I researched and seen all the cover ups BSA are involved in I filed a claim.And at this point I will dance a jig if they get shutdown.And to be honest that is exactly what needs to I'm sorry but any establishment that is for kids that cover up these horrific crimes does not have any business running a program like BSA.THEY FAILED EVERY SINGLE VICTEM.SO GOOD RIDDANCE BSA.IM DAMAGED FOR LIFE NOT MATTER HOW MUCH THERAPY I GO THROUGH.

You are correct the bankruptcy was never about survivors it was all about the BSA surviving and giving the least amount they could to us and trying to let their affiliates and business partners LC’s, CO’s and insurance companies pay pennies on the dollar for our suffering. From reading yesterdays DOJ Bankruptcy Trustee objections the BSA may find out soon that they shot themselves in the foot. If the 3’rd parties are not allowed to be part of the settlement they will have spent over $100M on wasted legal fees. They might find out that their legal advice to follow the course they took was flawed. 

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, PaleRider said:

IM DAMAGED FOR LIFE NOT MATTER HOW MUCH THERAPY I GO THROUGH.

GAH!! I forgot to write the most important part! I am SO SORRY and I hear you, brother!!

NOTE: I'm moving way too fast. Apologies. I'm jumping back and forth between here and a critical effort of the day. I meant this to be responsive to the issue of recovery and the statement, "I am damaged for life no matter how much therapy I go through" 

I've shared this sort of thing before, but for gee whiz and for those who didn't read it, "Play it, Sam." 

I've been in therapy for 22 years. Let's say my average weekly session is $110. For context, that's what I paid in 2000-2001. Today my psychiatrist is $350 every quarter and therapist $300 per week. Trauma therapist aren't cheap and the good ones impossible to find and, if you do, equally hard to see.) We can assume I saw just a therapist 3 times per month (though I go weekly as religiously as I can) for 11 months out of the year. That gives me a current total of $79,860 spent on therapy. Given the ultra conservative assumptions, we know the number is roughly triple that amount. Add in all the medical issues with resulting surgeries, residential and IOP treatment, hospitalizations, medications, lost wages and...yeah. Reality bites.

Why don't we do some further spitballing and pull some numbers from my POC. I just happen to keep it in a handy binder on the bookshelf by my desk. Let's see now. What do we got? Let's try tab H, page 23 of the narrative section. Part 5, Paragraph B of the POC, "Impact of Sexual Abuse.". Oh, yes. Here we go. My first stint in residential was in 2001 at the infamous Menninger Clinic, then in Topeka. I checked into the Professionals in Crisis side and straddled it and the Addiction Disorders ward. How much was it you ask? Happy to tell you. $36,564.01 in 2001 dollars. Let's scroll halfway down the page to 2012. Oo. This was a fun one. Child Trauma & Eating Disorder residential at Alsana, then Castlewood, in St. Louis. What did that run, I wonder? A cool $31,000. I could go on.  There are 17 entries under "Chronology of Mental & Behavioral Health Providers," a subheading of my making to keep things in some semblance of order. "Memories, light the corners of my mind." Hm. Now that I think of it, they need some light. Comedy is good, too. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by ThenNow
Gah. D-Oh. Oops. Rats.

[Eagle1993]

1 minute ago, johnsch322 said:

From reading yesterdays DOJ Bankruptcy Trustee objections the BSA may find out soon that they shot themselves in the foot. If the 3’rd parties are not allowed to be part of the settlement they will have spent over $100M on wasted legal fees. They might find out that their legal advice to follow the course they took was flawed. 

BSA entered bankruptcy in order to ensure it can survive long term while addressing debts that exceed their ability to pay.  That is why any organization would enter bankruptcy.

I agree there is a chance BSA wasted a ton of money on legal fees.  As of the end of December they spent $150M on this case.  If they are not able to get the nondebtor releases, that is in part due to timing (Purdue pharma came in late), in part due to the loose nature of the laws, in part due to their legal team (perhaps) and in part due to the Judge.  I think there will be plenty of blame to go around.

I am somewhat hopeful that they will find a path out soon that will satisfy most parties.  Unfortunately, they can never undo the damage that was done to far too many youth and I feel terrible that anyone went through those ordeals.

[johnsch322]

33 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

BSA entered bankruptcy in order to ensure it can survive long term while addressing debts that exceed their ability to pay.  That is why any organization would enter bankruptcy.

I agree there is a chance BSA wasted a ton of money on legal fees.  As of the end of December they spent $150M on this case.  If they are not able to get the nondebtor releases, that is in part due to timing (Purdue pharma came in late), in part due to the loose nature of the laws, in part due to their legal team (perhaps) and in part due to the Judge.  I think there will be plenty of blame to go around.

I am somewhat hopeful that they will find a path out soon that will satisfy most parties.  Unfortunately, they can never undo the damage that was done to far too many youth and I feel terrible that anyone went through those ordeals.

If BSA wanted to survive they could have entered bankruptcy as National only. They made the choice of bringing into the settlement the LC’s CO’s and insurance companies. Someone had to give them legal advice on that strategy and would bet coin it was there legal team. I personally have my doubts that there is a path out that will satisfy any other parties at this point. 

[1980Scouter]

Is there a chance the new agreement with the TCC could be BSA only? It would seem to simplify things and a least get national through this.

Then reset and let LC and CO go through their issues. Many LC would not survive the lawsuits but the stronger ones with fewer claims and better state laws could.

[Eagle1993]

1 hour ago, 1980Scouter said:

Is there a chance the new agreement with the TCC could be BSA only? It would seem to simplify things and a least get national through this.

Then reset and let LC and CO go through their issues. Many LC would not survive the lawsuits but the stronger ones with fewer claims and better state laws could.

I doubt it.   BSA only would mean a few hundred million in the trust vs billions.  Now could it be where only some LCs and COs are covered ... Sure.   It may go that way, but probably only as part of a cramdown.

BSA had said they would have an update on the docket last week. As of this morning... Silence.   Today is the day the TCC must submit their objection.   So, I think expect we will see something from the BSA today (plus the hearing is Friday). 

My only thought is that they are working through the US Trustee's objections be to see what they can address in the update.

[johnsch322]

UCLA settles gynecologist sex abuse suit for $243.6M | Fox News

$1.2 million per claimant

[fred8033]

4 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

BSA only would mean a few hundred million in the trust vs billions. 

Not sure what thread this goes in.  It is a question from months ago.  If BSA only bankruptcy put cash in trust for victims, is that money then dedicated to go to victims?  Or can it be used by victim advocates to fund a next level of lawsuits?  I realize the lawyer side could be used as needed.  I was wondering though ... say if it was $200m in the trust ... would at least $100m go as checks to the victims?  Or could it all be consumed to fund the next level of individual lawsuits?

 

[T2Eagle]

23 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Not sure what thread this goes in.  It is a question from months ago.  If BSA only bankruptcy put cash in trust for victims, is that money then dedicated to go to victims?  Or can it be used by victim advocates to fund a next level of lawsuits?  I realize the lawyer side could be used as needed.  I was wondering though ... say if it was $200m in the trust ... would at least $100m go as checks to the victims?  Or could it all be consumed to fund the next level of individual lawsuits?

 

In broad strokes, presumably one of the assets assigned to the trust would be BSA's rights to insurance coverage.  Part of the trust's responsibility would be to collect those monies, certainly suing the insurers could be part of that.

It would be very unusual, probably not allowed, if the trust were set up to sue other entities like LCs.

[fred8033]

2 hours ago, T2Eagle said:

In broad strokes, presumably one of the assets assigned to the trust would be BSA's rights to insurance coverage.  Part of the trust's responsibility would be to collect those monies, certainly suing the insurers could be part of that.

It would be very unusual, probably not allowed, if the trust were set up to sue other entities like LCs.

Perhaps the wrong thread...

That is a very useful answer, but not entirely clear or it doesn't really answer the question.  Or are you saying, yes the funds in the trust can be used to finance the legal costs to sue the insurance companies to pay out on the insurance claims.  Does that move affect agreements that were contingent and now become a fee-for-service drawing cash down?  

I'm just wondering ... say the fees and contingent services share pulls out 40% of $200m.  Now you are at $120m.  Of that $120m, would a check be sent to pay the victims?  Or, is it all re-invested to sue the insurance companies?

I have no right to the funds.  But, there is one result that would make me disgusted.  I would cringe if anyone is paid their contingent share of an award without the victim actually getting their share too.  I would cringe if the contingent monies are paid out, but then the victim share is used to finance the lawsuits against the insurance companies.  Insurance rights does not equal cash.  It will cost tens of millions or more to settle those claims.

If the toggle happened, I'm curious how the finances of the next legal level happens.  

Edited February 9, 2022 by fred8033

[PaleRider]

23 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

You are correct the bankruptcy was never about survivors it was all about the BSA surviving and giving the least amount they could to us and trying to let their affiliates and business partners LC’s, CO’s and insurance companies pay pennies on the dollar for our suffering. From reading yesterdays DOJ Bankruptcy Trustee objections the BSA may find out soon that they shot themselves in the foot. If the 3’rd parties are not allowed to be part of the settlement they will have spent over $100M on wasted legal fees. They might find out that their legal advice to follow the course they took was flawed. 

Thank you brother.Im sorry this happened to all of us 

[Eagle1993]

More objections are coming in.  Sounds like they are due in 15 mins.

a6eadea4-101c-4c41-b171-e4659b3d8f08_8748.pdf (omniagentsolutions.com)

I found the above interesting.  This is a claim that BSA does not own the Norman Rockwell artwork and therefore, cannot give it to the trust.

[T2Eagle]

2 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Perhaps the wrong thread...

That is a very useful answer, but not entirely clear or it doesn't really answer the question.  Or are you saying, yes the funds in the trust can be used to finance the legal costs to sue the insurance companies to pay out on the insurance claims.  Does that move affect agreements that were contingent and now become a fee-for-service drawing cash down?  

I'm just wondering ... say the fees and contingent services share pulls out 40% of $200m.  Now you are at $120m.  Of that $120m, would a check be sent to pay the victims?  Or, is it all re-invested to sue the insurance companies?

I have no right to the funds.  But, there is one result that would make me disgusted.  I would cringe if anyone is paid their contingent share of an award without the victim actually getting their share too.  I would cringe if the contingent monies are paid out, but then the victim share is used to finance the lawsuits against the insurance companies.  Insurance rights does not equal cash.  It will cost tens of millions or more to settle those claims.

If the toggle happened, I'm curious how the finances of the next legal level happens.  

So, not having read the plan closely enough to speak specifically to it, I'll try to answer this generically.

How much, and how, and when a lawyer representing a claimant gets paid is between the claimant and the lawyer.  Some law firms have a lot of clients and probably use the same fee agreement for all of them.  But there are (probably) hundreds of firms who have clients in this case.  Not all of them are charging 40%, they may not all even be contingent, there are certainly some folks who are attorneys and representing themselves, there are almost certainly folks who aren't attorneys representing themselves.

Whenever the trust starts sending out checks, presumably some claimants will have their lawyer do all the legwork and have the full payment sent to the lawyer, in which case the lawyer will then figure out their fees and send the client the balance.  But also presumably some claimants will get their check directly, and then have to turn around and cut a check to their lawyer.  The mechanics of all this is probably contained in the fee agreements between lawyers and clients.

It is very much not the Trust's responsibility to make sure that the lawyers get paid their contingency fees.

All of the above is about fees based on the work done for individual claimants, and paid after the trust is funded and starts paying victims.  Because this is a bankruptcy, there are also legal fees that may be related to and necessitated by the bankruptcy process.  They'll be paid as part of the process.  I don't know enough to know whether they're paid by BSA before it funds the trust or if they're paid from the trust after it is funded.  The TCC's lawyers fall into this category, and if memory serves, the Coalition lawyers want to fall into this category, and that is under dispute. 

Hope this helps, there are better informed legal minds than mine on here.  I hope they chime in to clean my thoughts up.

[johnsch322]

And now there is a party who said that the BSA does not wholly own the Rockwell collection hence they cannot dispose of it in the bankruptcy.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/a6eadea4-101c-4c41-b171-e4659b3d8f08_8748.pdf

I did not see the earlier paost

Edited February 9, 2022 by johnsch322