ThenNow Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said: My guess is that the vote comes in the range of 70-85% accept. Why? Because that likely the worst case scenario for all involved and given BSA's luck, I expect that is what we will see. What is this the worst case? Because it is enough to pass a BSA only plan; however, not enough for the judge to likely accept non debtors. BSA will believe they are close enough. Anti plan advocates will believe that close doesn't count. With no clear "winner" of the vote, we will be stuck in limbo for months. Same. Yup. Yup. Yup. Btw, did you mean limbo, purgatory or the hybrid place of waiting and torture? Limbatory, I like to call it. Edited January 3, 2022 by ThenNow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said: I just saw Daniel Boone council had 20 lawsuits filed against it for CSA. From prior discussions, each CSA lawsuit costs about $500K in legal fees ... so they are likely looking at $10M (roughly) in legal fees. I took a look at the Daniel Boone's settlement ... they only offered $656K. They have net unrestricted assets of $7.8M. It seems like some councils are playing with fire. Just the legal fees from 2 cases likely exceeds their settlement offer. If this plan fails, I believe some councils may have wished they offered more. Daniel Boone is one that I question right now. I saw that and come to a similar conclusion. Assessing my own LC, there are 6 live claims (including mine) that could easily settle out over their current offer, not including fees. If they all go to trial, well past the number. As a non-litigator who is devoid of other than a basic recollection of the laws of evidence, making a multimillion dollar offer to “resolve” child sexual abuse claims via someone else’s bankruptcy proceeding doesn’t look great, even if inadmissible. From a public perception perspective alone, since all of the numbers are public, it could serve as leverage. I’m sure SiouxCity can enlighten on the law. As to simple optics, pretty no bueno. Wonder if that/this scenario has been contemplated and factored into decisions to this point. Thus concludes my ignorant ramble on this topic. Edited January 3, 2022 by ThenNow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 5 hours ago, fred8033 said: January 3rd 2022 ... Welcome to [] bankruptcy year four ... I started discussing bankruptcy rumors in 2019 to handle CSA, GSA etc suits. So this is all your fault? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MYCVAStory Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 This could be an interesting TCC Town Hall meeting: The next regular Town Hall of the Official Committee of Tort Claimants' (the “TCC”) in the Boy Scouts of America bankruptcy cases will be held on Thursday, January 6, 2022, 8 pm (Eastern). Zoom link: https://pszjlaw.zoom.us/j/82272826295 (no registration required) or by phone: 888-788-0099 (toll free), Webinar ID: 822 7282 6295 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred8033 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 9 hours ago, Eagle1993 said: I just saw Daniel Boone council had 20 lawsuits filed against it for CSA. From prior discussions, each CSA lawsuit costs about $500K in legal fees ... so they are likely looking at $10M (roughly) in legal fees. I took a look at the Daniel Boone's settlement ... they only offered $656K. They have net unrestricted assets of $7.8M. It seems like some councils are playing with fire. Just the legal fees from 2 cases likely exceeds their settlement offer. If this plan fails, I believe some councils may have wished they offered more. Daniel Boone is one that I question right now. c1f98e_d7d75080e9ef4391ae5b8bc408cb8211.pdf (filesusr.com) I'm assuming that will trigger a LC bankruptcy case ... which seems the right way to handle it. Those 20 get a claim against BSA's bankruptcy and the future local LCs bankruptcy. It seems the righ way to handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle1993 Posted January 4, 2022 Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 43 minutes ago, fred8033 said: I'm assuming that will trigger a LC bankruptcy case ... which seems the right way to handle it. Those 20 get a claim against BSA's bankruptcy and the future local LCs bankruptcy. It seems the righ way to handle it. That is my guess if this plan doesn't go through. Typically settlements seem to hit at least 2-3M for each case... so they would be looking at 40 - 60M just in settlement talks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle1993 Posted January 4, 2022 Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 FYI ... TCC, as expected, filed depositions against Omni and BSA about voting. 66ded425-a7b8-41b6-9ece-51a6eba612bf_8101.pdf (omniagentsolutions.com) 937d5a67-ffb1-4121-8020-5bd252c5b952_8100.pdf (omniagentsolutions.com) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, Eagle1993 said: Typically settlements seem to hit at least 2-3M for each case... Data source(s)? Is that an overall settlement number for suits vs BSA, LC and CO? Single entity...? Love to have you unwrap that tidy parcel you put under the tree. Edited January 4, 2022 by ThenNow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle1993 Posted January 4, 2022 Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 28 minutes ago, ThenNow said: Data source(s)? Is that an overall settlement number for suits vs BSA, LC and CO? Single entity...? Love to have you unwrap that tidy parcel you put under the tree. I think that was from non bankrupt CSA settlements that were made public. It also came from the TDP where the "max" claim amount is in the range of $2 - $2.7M. I couldn't find anything else outside the TDPs. I did find the below which details out all of the Catholic Church settlements that were public. Note their average per claimant is post attorney fees. Also, some of the earlier lawsuits you have to adjust for inflation. https://www.bishop-accountability.org/settlements/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MYCVAStory Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 Well....we'll know more soon. If the BSA hits the 75% needed its calculation was right and partnering with the Coalition was a smart move and they delivered the votes. If it's under 75% then it looks like they're teeing up an effort to go full Palm Beach County and start looking for hanging chads. But what if there's a more current analogy? What if it's like the most recent election and the discovery barrage on a ton of non-Coalition firms just further validates that these "smaller" firms counted and recorded their votes correctly after all? Be careful what you wish for. I'm a Survivor, and I don't do "looking back" very well. But I try to keep perspective and reflection from time to time that I can handle. Right now, I can't help but think about the millions that have been spent on legal fees by the BSA, money that could have gone to Survivors, done in a voluntary bankruptcy to achieve the goals of the BSA to wipe the slate clean and emerge. If the 75% is reached it's a step forward with SIGNIFICANT jurisdictional/release issues ahead care of Purdue but still a BIG step for the BSA to emerge. And if the 75% isn't reached? Well, I'd love to be a fly on the wall of that meeting with the BSA when it asks its bankruptcy attorneys "So tell us again how partnering with the Coalition, excluding the TCC, and having the US Trustee fight third-party releases is going to work out for us?" You can spin every scenario but some days you just have to think about who you'd rather be. Today it'll come down to one thing: 75%. Very little in bankruptcy is "game over" until the judge says so but for today the BSA's path is about to get easier or a lot harder and judgement about that strategy and how all that money has and will be spent for now hinges on that same thing: 75%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 12 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said: If the BSA hits the 75% needed On what precedent is this number based? I just haven’t seen it pegged so specifically before. 13 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said: the discovery barrage This seems to be a strong indicator of the lay of the land (vote), no? Seems that way to me. As always, thanks for all your good info and insights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle1993 Posted January 4, 2022 Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 6 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said: now hinges on that same thing: 75%. I struggle to see that 75% will be enough. Many recent cases seemed to have issues even as they approached 95% approval. You may be right, that 75% would likely mean the plan confirmation will go forward ... but that still leaves a large number of non consensual creditors for the non debtors to be included. I also wonder if you could see several COs or LCs with subtotals under 66% approval. Perhaps the way I will look at it: <75% and the plan is dead. The judge should kick the coalition out as a mediation partner and restart mediation. BSA & TCC should meet to discuss plan structure that could get their buy in. 75% - 94% or so ... this plan will go forward; however, perhaps a high likelihood of issues during confirmation OR appeals. 95%+ likely less issues during confirmation (pending Purdue) and just minor changes before plan approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsch322 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 27 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said: Well, I'd love to be a fly on the wall of that meeting with the BSA when it asks its bankruptcy attorneys "So tell us again how partnering with the Coalition, excluding the TCC, and having the US Trustee fight third-party releases is going to work out for us?" I would like to be the fly on the wall when the coalitions bankers start asking for the repayment on the loans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said: <75% and the plan is dead. The judge should kick the coalition out as a mediation partner and restart mediation. BSA & TCC should meet to discuss plan structure that could get their buy in. Or, no one regards the number, whatever it is, as definitive and MAD commences with all parties attempting to “change” the vote tally by undermining the other. If the preliminary count is under the magic threshold, can’t BSA simply say, “the election was stolen,” proceed as if it “won” and do everything possible to make it so? Unless it’s a truly dispositive vote, this is the path I see. Edited January 4, 2022 by ThenNow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 So, when does the ball drop, anyway? Is Ryan Seacrest on standby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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